What is the purpose of the millennium according to historic premillennialism

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sovereigngrace said:
He is ruling over them now. He is putting them down now. One by one they are under His feet! 1 Corinthians 15:22-24, stating, “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his Coming. Then (or eita or thereupon) cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down (or katargeésee or abolished) all rule and all authority and power.”

1 Corinthians 15:22-24 tells us that “all rule and all authority and power” are finally “put down” or katargeésee or abolished at the “Coming” or parousia of the Lord, which is, as we have established, confirmed in the next sentence as “the end.” The kingdom of God is finally and eternally presented “up,” whereas the kingdom of darkness is finally and eternally “put down.” It is this all-consummating last day that ushers in the end (or completion) of all things.

Paul reinforce his point in regard to the concluding nature of Christ’s return, and how it spells the termination of death and rebellion, 1 Corinthians 15:25-28, saying: “For [Gr. gar or seeing] he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For ‘he hath put’ (aorist active indicative) all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be [Gr. hupotageé] subdued (or subordinated) unto him (speaking of the Second Coming), then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all” (1 Corinthians 15:25-28).

After telling us that Christ’s Coming sees the termination of the wicked and their evil operations, the writer tells us that Christ’s reign over His enemies must continue until this climactic point. Whilst “all power” is now assuredly given unto Christ “in heaven and in earth” (Matthew 28:18) through His life, death and resurrection, and whilst through this victorious work “he hath put all things under his feet” in a sovereign manner, we have not yet seen the final subduing of wickedness. This comes at the Second Coming of the Lord.

Paul is simply reinforcing the thought that he just stated about the climactic Coming of Christ. It is the time “when he shall have put down (or abolished) all rule and all authority and power.” 1 Corinthians 15 verses 24 and 28 repeat the same all-consummating truth.
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We would agree that Jesus will be turning over His KIngdom to the Father, but do not agree that Jesus will have put down all of His enemies apart from that being made literally true during His reign here upon the restored earth.
 
Dachaser said:
How can there be a disaster when the Lord Jesus Himself is the ruler and the One administering justice in that time? Is God somehow not able to make it work as it should be, especially after Jesus has lifted the curse of the Fall upon creation at His returning?
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LOL. How is the curse lifted if the earth is polluted by billions of religious unregenerates?
 
sovereigngrace said:
Once again, where does it teach this in the Bible? It doesn't matter what the Premil books say, where does thee Book teach that? Could you show me actual Scripture that proves animal sacrifices will be re-introduced as memorial sacrifices on the new earth?
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Ezekiel, but we would disagree on how to interpret what was being meant by the Prophet there!
 
Dachaser said:
We would agree that Jesus will be turning over His KIngdom to the Father, but do not agree that Jesus will have put down all of His enemies apart from that being made literally true during His reign here upon the restored earth.
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The “coming” of the Lord, described in this reading, is here carefully located at “the end.” In fact, the whole tenure of the passage is distinctly pointing to a climactic time in history when God separates righteousness and wickedness forever. It is the occasion approaching when Christ finally presents “up the kingdom to God” and will have, as He promised, “put down all rule and all authority and power.” Simultaneously, the glorification of the kingdom of God sees the destruction of the kingdom of darkness. It is the end-game for Satan and the conclusion of his evil efforts to obstruct the plan of God for mankind. Wickedness has finally and eternally been abolished.
 
sovereigngrace said:
The “coming” of the Lord, described in this reading, is here carefully located at “the end.” In fact, the whole tenure of the passage is distinctly pointing to a climactic time in history when God separates righteousness and wickedness forever. It is the occasion approaching when Christ finally presents “up the kingdom to God” and will have, as He promised, “put down all rule and all authority and power.” Simultaneously, the glorification of the kingdom of God sees the destruction of the kingdom of darkness. It is the end-game for Satan and the conclusion of his evil efforts to obstruct the plan of God for mankind. Wickedness has finally and eternally been abolished.
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It happens immediately after the Great White Throne judgment, whch would be after Chapter 20 of Revelation, after the rule of Jesus, when all of the lost will then be resurrected up and judged.
 
Dachaser said:
Paul stated in Romans that when Jesus returns and once we become glorified, that even nature/creation itself longs for that day, to have the curse lifted off it!
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Exactly! Repeated Scripture forbids the Premil scenario of a continuation of, and increase in, corruption, death and rebellion. Romans 8 refutes your theory. Amil conforms to repeated Scripture that confirms the earth will be banished forever of all corruption, death and rebellion when Jesus comes.
 
Dachaser said:
His coming will end Armageddon and cause massive deaths, but there shall be survivors to enter into his Kingdom rule.
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David I know posts are being thrown your way, and this will be my last one. I don't want you to feel attacked by me, but just wanted to say this last thing. When the Lord Jesus Christ comes it will be to put an end to all wickedness and to judge the living and the dead. He is not coming to an interim something where there are still plottings and evil. That would be so beneath his dignity. No evil can stand before the fire of his coming. He will bring all hidden things to light and destroy death forever. I understand your position because I held to it also. Read the Scripture I posted and ask yourself, how is this not describing a complete work by Christ when he comes, the end of all suffering and death and evil.
 
Dachaser said:
It happens immediately after the Great White Throne judgment, whch would be after Chapter 20 of Revelation, after the rule of Jesus, when all of the lost will then be resurrected up and judged.
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Read 1 Corinthians 15:22-24: “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.”

Where possibly can you find your supposed future millennium here? It is watertight and allows no room for your doctrine. You have to force it into text after text that the Holy Spirit forgot to do. The reality is, it will never happen. Your battle is with the sacred text.
 
Dachaser said:
Ezekiel, but we would disagree on how to interpret what was being meant by the Prophet there!
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Why would any Bible believing Christian advocate the restart of the pointless useless old covenant system when Christ superseded it with an effective, superior and final system - the new covenant?

Hebrews 10:12 says, "this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God.”

Hebrews 10:14 says, “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.”

Hebrews 10:18 says, "there is no more offering for sin."

Hebrews 10:26 says, "there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins."
 
Dachaser said:
Ezekiel, but we would disagree on how to interpret what was being meant by the Prophet there!
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Where does Ezekiel (or any other Bible writer) say the sacrifices are memorial? Where does he say they pertain to an age after the second coming? Where does he mention a supposed future millennium?
 
Jeri Tanner said:
Just to be clear, amillenialism has Christ returning to destroy evil and rescue his people. He will not dwell again with the wicked (he did that the first time)
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Perhaps, but that's not what your initial quote said (though I figured that's probably what you meant).
 
sovereigngrace said:
How possibly can you argue that? How can you say there will be no sin, corruption and death when your millennial kingdom is overrun by countless religious phonies (as the sand of the sea), who obviously feign their submission to Christ, yet when Satan appears, they swiftly rally to his side? This is insane! Also, you have the greatest battle in history at the end of the pre-millennial millennium, when the wicked under the command of Satan surround Christ and the glorified saints as a sand of the sea. Your millennium of bliss is a total bust!

How can these billions of mortal wicked not sin or die? Also, you have the lion and lamb enjoying millennial bliss until the slaughter truck pulls up to drag the lambs, goats and bullocks to the temple in Jerusalem for sacrifice in the presence of Jesus. Amazingly, for the first time in history they have no fear of their traditional predators, just supposedly righteous millennial God-ordained priests coming for them with sharp knives.

Sin and death are everywhere in your supposed future age of aquarius.
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You tagged me in this quote but (as usual) I fail to see how it is relevant to anything I said. Also note you are associating people with Age of Aquarius, but you get upset when people point out similarities between yourself and full preterists.
 
PuritanCovenanter said:
You must be reading a different thread. Maybe I haven't been clear enough. It isn't the charts alone. The charts are based upon teaching. It is the teaching that the charts signify. Just type in Chart of Revelation or of the Bible and you will get a load full of stuff that is overly full of assumption and misapplied scripture. It is mind boggling. It is a way for the Christian to be misdirected from Messiah the Prince's Mediatorial Kingdom and Kingship. It is a poor Christology. Christology is the root doctrine effected by this stuff.
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Then I don't know why you brought charts up at all, unless David introduced a timeline I didn't see.

As for poor Christology, I'll leave that to others. I've forgotten more about Patristic Christology than most seminaries actually teach. I am not boasting, as I started studying Patristic Christology because RTS dropped the ball on that course when I was there.
 
BayouHuguenot said:
You tagged me in this quote but (as usual) I fail to see how it is relevant to anything I said. Also note you are associating people with Age of Aquarius, but you get upset when people point out similarities between yourself and full preterists.
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Please stop avoiding the issues. The argument stands solid and unanswered, like countless simple questions in this discussion.
 
BayouHuguenot said:
Then I don't know why you brought charts up at all, unless David introduced a timeline I didn't see.
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You were responding to this Jacob. It wasn't just about the charts. Read the whole context of the post before this one you are responding to.

I said,
"It isn't just the date setting mindset. It is the wasted time of making and encouraged studying of charts based upon the assumptions and interpretations of the book of Revelation based upon pour genre misapplication and poor hermeneutics as well as misapplied passages..."

PuritanCovenanter said:
It isn't just the date setting mindset. It is the wasted time of making and encouraged studying of charts based upon the assumptions and interpretations of the book of Revelation based upon pour genre misapplication and poor hermeneutics as well as misapplied passages from Daniel, Ezekiel, Isaiah, etc.
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Jacob you are going around in circles now. SMH
 
sovereigngrace said:
Exactly! Repeated Scripture forbids the Premil scenario of a continuation of, and increase in, corruption, death and rebellion. Romans 8 refutes your theory. Amil conforms to repeated Scripture that confirms the earth will be banished forever of all corruption, death and rebellion when Jesus comes.
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We also agree that Jesus will abolish all sin and disease and warfare, as he is the One who rules with the Iron Rod, as per Psalms!
 
Jeri Tanner said:
David I know posts are being thrown your way, and this will be my last one. I don't want you to feel attacked by me, but just wanted to say this last thing. When the Lord Jesus Christ comes it will be to put an end to all wickedness and to judge the living and the dead. He is not coming to an interim something where there are still plottings and evil. That would be so beneath his dignity. No evil can stand before the fire of his coming. He will bring all hidden things to light and destroy death forever. I understand your position because I held to it also. Read the Scripture I posted and ask yourself, how is this not describing a complete work by Christ when he comes, the end of all suffering and death and evil.
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I agree with you, as do all premils, that when Jesus sets up His Kingdom reign here on earth, indeed all that comes as a result of the cursed creation will be undone, and all nations and people shall worship Him only as Lord, and His morality shall be established over the entire earth. We just see the eternal State as being seperate and distinct event, right after the GWT.
 
sovereigngrace said:
Read 1 Corinthians 15:22-24: “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.”

Where possibly can you find your supposed future millennium here? It is watertight and allows no room for your doctrine. You have to force it into text after text that the Holy Spirit forgot to do. The reality is, it will never happen. Your battle is with the sacred text.
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Depends on how you understand Chapter 20 of Revelation, First and Second Resurrection, Gwt, and how to understand Messianic Age.
 
sovereigngrace said:
Why would any Bible believing Christian advocate the restart of the pointless useless old covenant system when Christ superseded it with an effective, superior and final system - the new covenant?

Hebrews 10:12 says, "this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God.”

Hebrews 10:14 says, “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.”

Hebrews 10:18 says, "there is no more offering for sin."

Hebrews 10:26 says, "there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins."
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No Premil believer though is saying that God reinstitutes the OT system, as its just memorial in nature!
 
Reinstating a sacrificial system is blasphemous in my estimation since the Lord instituted the Lord's supper as a memorial. You haven't addressed that David. You are not interacting with the four questions either. You are obfuscating and not answering.
 
Dachaser said:
We also agree that Jesus will abolish all sin and disease and warfare, as he is the One who rules with the Iron Rod, as per Psalms!
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Wherever you have sinners you have corruption. Death is the result of sin. Your millennium is saturated in an army of wicked Satanists - as the sand of the sea. You cannot get around that. So your millennium is not how you have been taught. If the curse was lifted then it would be life the Amil and Postmil new earth - perfect!
 
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Dachaser said:
Mentioned in Zechariah 14 and Isaiah 2 and 65.
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Please quote the text that shows such. You know it is not there. So, you have nothing in the OT. What about the NT?

Could you show me any Scripture that proves animal sacrifices will be re-introduced as ceremonial memorial sacrifices on the new earth?

Where does it teach in the New Testament that we should (or can) sacrifice animals to commemorate Christ's death?

Are Christ’s hands and feet not a satisfactory enough reminder of the cross for the inhabitants of the new earth?

Does Hebrews 10:1 not make clear that the Jewish ceremonial law was “a shadow of good things to come” not ‘good things that have been’? The ceremonial law is never depicted as looking back but always forward.
 
Dachaser said:
Mentioned in Zechariah 14 and Isaiah 2 and 65.
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Quit doing this David. Give us specific passages, the historical context, and your interpretation along with the application. Learn to interact or you will be shut down. You have been overly warned for years now.
 
PuritanCovenanter said:
"It isn't just the date setting mindset. It is the wasted time of making and encouraged studying of charts based upon the assumptions and interpretations of the book of Revelation based upon pour genre misapplication and poor hermeneutics as well as misapplied passages..."
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This is so vague it could apply to anyone (including people who post on nothing but eschatology).
 
Dachaser said:
Mentioned in Zechariah 14 and Isaiah 2 and 65.
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If you would actually objectively examine Isaiah 2 and 65 you would see that one relates expressly to "the last days" and the other relates to "the new heavens and new earth." Due to the scriptural silence on a future millennium, Premillennialists have to dump texts that have absolutely nothing to do with such a suppose future millennium. No text is safe under Premil hermeneutics.

Isaiah 65:17-19 says, “For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying."

Can I remind you that the new heavens and the new earth come are not the millennium, but they come after the millennium?

Look at Revelation 21:1-4: “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband … And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.”

Revelation 22:3 tells us that there is coming a day where “there shall be no more curse.”
 
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BayouHuguenot said:
No, I am not.
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Yes you are and you are worthless in this conversation as far as I can see it. You have just made 4 posts at least on this. You just went in a big circle. We were speaking about specific things. You are not worth answering here in my estimation. I love you but you are more confusing than light bearing in this conversation. I have pointed to specific things that are pointed and defined by easier passages. I have made accusations against the premil interpretation. I have mentioned how it steals time away and leads others into a misguided study with no application and a possible set up for a false belief in a future Utopia of a false Messiah monarch. The Sacrificial System reinstituted is blasphemous. Christology is defiled by this system as it pertains to the Kingdom of God and Christ as Messiah the Prince our Mediator. There are all kinds of things wrong with this.
 
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