Tight jeans

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I know people who have never been around a suit, don't know how to tie a tie, and only ever bought shirts in either small, medium, or large sizes. Most of them feel very awkward around a church full of suits. I've helped a few learn how to buy a shirt that fits and tie a tie, etc., but they shouldn't be made to feel embarassed because they don't have fine raiment. They can be dressed respectfully without it.

I didn't know how to tie a tie until I was 23 and attending my sister's wedding. My Dad's best friend was in the hotel room and was shocked that I didn't know how, but very graciously showed me. I really appreciated that.
 
One can dress nicely without a tie or jacket. And as for $33 on a suit for a boy, though a good deal, is still too much for some families that could better us that to make ends meet or spend that extra keeping their growing boys in supply of pants and shoes that fit. There are poor in this country...are you going to dare tell them how they should dress for worship or presume upon their intentions?

Sorry, folks (and especially you Jamal, if it offended you). My intention was not to dictate a mode of dress but to say that where I go, this is the standard. I was able to dress my boy to well above this standard for not much but could have done it for less yet. No, there is no where in II Corinthians 4 that says that one should wear X+X+X and that is godly.

The reason many of us go this route (that is, suit and tie/full-skirted dress as a standard of 'proper' attire) is that we see such trash in the other direction. Those who cannot afford to wear (or don't know any better than to wear) anything but t-shirt, jeans and sandals, well, God bless 'em. It is those who can dress modestly/respectfully and instead choose to wear something that shows a little more of her cleavage or wear something that shows off how much time he's been spending in the gym, that is what gets my goat. Or seeing a cavalcade of the 'latest' fashions and what's trendy this five minutes. Ugh.

Lately, in my home church, my goat has been got with alarming frequency.
 
I think everyone is missing the point about dressing nice. What you wear reflects your attitude before God. The high priest had a really nice set of threads before he went into the holy of holies. What would you wear if you were actually going into the presence of God? That is what you are doing Sunday morning.

The closest thing we have to mimic that situation is going before a judge or a king. Most people on trial want to look there best to project that they are clean cut etc. Most in front of a King will wear the best they have as a sign of respect.

I think we should be aware that we are going before the King of kings and the Judge of all the earth and that as a sign of the honor due him we should wear the best we have. In each culture that will differ. In OT times they had the nice fancy cloak and they had the hanging around the desert cloak.

It is a posture of humility and respect and in our culture that is a suit and tie or a nice dress and don't forget the hat. :pilgrim: :p There is a standard and everyone here knows that. Our culture is just going downhill fast in the clothing dept. thanks to tv and movies. :banghead:
 
I think everyone is missing the point about dressing nice. What you wear reflects your attitude before God. The high priest had a really nice set of threads before he went into the holy of holies. What would you wear if you were actually going into the presence of God? That is what you are doing Sunday morning.

The closest thing we have to mimic that situation is going before a judge or a king. Most people on trial want to look there best to project that they are clean cut etc. Most in front of a King will wear the best they have as a sign of respect.

I think we should be aware that we are going before the King of kings and the Judge of all the earth and that as a sign of the honor due him we should wear the best we have. In each culture that will differ. In OT times they had the nice fancy cloak and they had the hanging around the desert cloak.

It is a posture of humility and respect and in our culture that is a suit and tie or a nice dress and don't forget the hat. :pilgrim: :p There is a standard and everyone here knows that. Our culture is just going downhill fast in the clothing dept. thanks to tv and movies. :banghead:

I think it was different in OT. God actually commanded specifically what the priest were to wear. NT is different. Paul tells us not to dress in costly attire.
 
It doesn't have to be costly to be nice. I can get my son a whole suit at Walmart for about $20. Or at the thrift store where I get a lot of my clothing. The morals behind all they did in the OT still stand. God does not change. If he prefered honor then he does now also. Your posture changes with what you wear. You wouldn't waller around on the couch or the grass in a nice dress would you? You would be poised and act accordingly.

If you wouldn't wear it to meet the president then don't wear it to church. In the NT God commands us to give honor to whom honor is due (the president) so does he not deserve much more honor as our holy righteous God?
 
Get your goat back!!!!!....I'm buying a new leash for mine, because mine is usually more got than it is ungot lately.
 
Perg, Kevin's goat is merely metaphorical whereas yours I am sure is quite real. :lol: He should maybe get a metaphorical leash for his metaporical goat. :)
 
It doesn't have to be costly to be nice. I can get my son a whole suit at Walmart for about $20. Or at the thrift store where I get a lot of my clothing. The morals behind all they did in the OT still stand. God does not change. If he prefered honor then he does now also. Your posture changes with what you wear. You wouldn't waller around on the couch or the grass in a nice dress would you? You would be poised and act accordingly.

If you wouldn't wear it to meet the president then don't wear it to church. In the NT God commands us to give honor to whom honor is due (the president) so does he not deserve much more honor as our holy righteous God?

I do dress up most of the time but not always. I don't think my dressing up has anything to do with me appearing before God to worship. I dress up to fit in with what everyone else is doing. It's not a sin to dress up modestly and it's not a sin to not dress up. Christ is our high priest and He presents
Himself perfectly before God for us. Again, this is very cultural. The persecuted church doesn't trifle with such luxury. It is legalism to demand that people dress up for church since Scripture doesn't command that we do so. It might be the preference of some people and that's ok, but no one is allowed to put that preference on others no matter how "godly" it sounds. Not that anyone is really doing that here.
 
My real goats have been got, multiplied, cut and eaten and gotten again and sold.... My metaphorical goat needs more taming or else I need to gut him too.
 
Perg, Kevin's goat is merely metaphorical whereas yours I am sure is quite real. He should maybe get a metaphorical leash for his metaporical goat.

Oddly enough, it is not only a metaphorical goat. I do own a goat, and have for the last 72 hours or so (with kid). So my goat is got both metaphorically and temporally. (By the way, we do not leash ours, we keep her in her pen with her kid, right next to the laying hens.)

Never have I written a post so strange.
 
I think everyone is missing the point about dressing nice. What you wear reflects your attitude before God. The high priest had a really nice set of threads before he went into the holy of holies. What would you wear if you were actually going into the presence of God? That is what you are doing Sunday morning.

The closest thing we have to mimic that situation is going before a judge or a king. Most people on trial want to look there best to project that they are clean cut etc. Most in front of a King will wear the best they have as a sign of respect.

I think we should be aware that we are going before the King of kings and the Judge of all the earth and that as a sign of the honor due him we should wear the best we have. In each culture that will differ. In OT times they had the nice fancy cloak and they had the hanging around the desert cloak.

It is a posture of humility and respect and in our culture that is a suit and tie or a nice dress and don't forget the hat. :pilgrim: :p There is a standard and everyone here knows that. Our culture is just going downhill fast in the clothing dept. thanks to tv and movies. :banghead:

:banghead:

I've heard this argument time and time again and just can't buy it. First, what exactly constitutes and determines "nice" dress? Is a $30 suit "nicer" than a $80 pair of jeans? If so, why? Second, yes . . . we are going to pay homage the King and Judge, but that's not all God is to us. He is our Heavenly Father. He is high and lifted up, but He is near. He has come down to us and become one of us.

I dunno, I think you have a really hard time proving -- from Scripture or logic -- that a suit and tie necessarily reflects a more respectful heart attitude than other styles of dress.
 
I think everyone is missing the point about dressing nice. What you wear reflects your attitude before God. The high priest had a really nice set of threads before he went into the holy of holies. What would you wear if you were actually going into the presence of God? That is what you are doing Sunday morning.

The closest thing we have to mimic that situation is going before a judge or a king. Most people on trial want to look there best to project that they are clean cut etc. Most in front of a King will wear the best they have as a sign of respect.

I think we should be aware that we are going before the King of kings and the Judge of all the earth and that as a sign of the honor due him we should wear the best we have. In each culture that will differ. In OT times they had the nice fancy cloak and they had the hanging around the desert cloak.

It is a posture of humility and respect and in our culture that is a suit and tie or a nice dress and don't forget the hat. :pilgrim: :p There is a standard and everyone here knows that. Our culture is just going downhill fast in the clothing dept. thanks to tv and movies. :banghead:

:banghead:

I've heard this argument time and time again and just can't buy it. First, what exactly constitutes and determines "nice" dress? Is a $30 suit "nicer" than a $80 pair of jeans? If so, why? Second, yes . . . we are going to pay homage the King and Judge, but that's not all God is to us. He is our Heavenly Father. He is high and lifted up, but He is near. He has come down to us and become one of us.

I dunno, I think you have a really hard time proving -- from Scripture or logic -- that a suit and tie necessarily reflects a more respectful heart attitude than other styles of dress.
As one who really enjoys dressing up, nonetheless, :ditto:
 
Hey, I like dressing "nice" on occasion, as well. It'd be quite out of place at my church, but when the occasion calls for it (wedding, funeral, interview), I love it.
 
I personally think we should not have any sort of dress code in how people come to church other than not being immodest or blatantly disrespectful. I think the danger of being expected to "dress up" is that it could become a mark of worldliness or wealth or be offputting to people who cannot afford to dress that way or feel that they don't fit a certain social class. Or that we will start judging people who attend church by the way they dress.

I certainly have been been in churches where one's wordly wealth is on display, including the Anglican church my family belonged to when I was a child where being from the right class and social circle was definitely a big part of who went to that church and how they dressed. There was a clear signal in that church that those who did not come from a privileged background were not welcome. It was not a very nice place, in my opinion, and I don't have any good memories of it.

I know our senior pastor feels pretty strongly that how one dresses should not be an issue in our church, and that we shouldn't be putting any obstacles in the path of people coming to our church. In fact, he has brought it up more than once from the pulpit.

I can see an issue with immodest or disrespectful dress, but to be frank I haven't seen that in the people attending our church although they are in all manner of dress. We've had attenders that look like Rastafarians, or who might be covered in tattoos and piercings, but our church's feeling is no matter who they may be, we would rather them be hearing the Word preached in our church than be turned off by a church that is too "establishment" for them. And you'd be surprised by the number of strong Christians who dress up like they're from a biker gang. Or hardcore surfers.

I really think the apostle James speaks to this discussion:

"My brothers, show no partiality as you hold the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory. For if a man wearing a gold ring and fine clothing comes into your assembly, and a poor man in shabby clothing also comes in, and if you pay attention to the one who wears the fine clothing and say, "You sit here in a good place," while you say to the poor man, "You stand over there," or, "Sit down at my feet," have you not then made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?" (James 2:1-4)
 
If you wouldn't wear it to meet the president then don't wear it to church. In the NT God commands us to give honor to whom honor is due (the president) so does he not deserve much more honor as our holy righteous God?

I believe you have a scriptural argument here. Traci.
In Malachi chapter one the Lord uses the same argument.
Verse 6. *"A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you" ......
verse 8. *"And if ye offer the blind for sacrifice, is it not evil? and if ye offer the lame and sick, is it not evil? offer it now unto thy governor; will he be pleased with thee, or accept thy person? saith the LORD of hosts."

Really, what wondrous condescending language is here; what supreme patience and forbearance from the King and Maker of the universe speaking to his priests.

I personally think that our main emphasis in showing honor to God as a father is first from the heart of course. Our new testament spiritual sacrifice of worship, which is to offer ourselves. Our dress should be modest of course but beyond that we should just follow protocol. That is what we do for the president or for any public function. We learn what is expected at that given meeting. If we are honorable and desiring to edify, we will endeavor to dress like everyone else. I have found that certain churches are dressier than others. I think dressing is a clear cut cultural issue.

The culture today which largely directs what our girls wear these days is not modest in my opinion. Everything must be thin and tight. Which is what the thread is about. These things need to change whether in church or out in public. I am preaching to myself I suppose here. I have 6 daughters who really want to please me but I seem to always loose the battle trying to keep the jeans loose fitting. I started out with only dresses. Anyway that is a long story and I better quit.
Talk to you all later.
 
'By those who come near Me I will be treated as holy, And before all the people I will be honored.' - Lev 10:3
nuff said
THANKS to everyone for weighing in on my first post. What a flabbergasting forum!
 
If you wouldn't wear it to meet the president then don't wear it to church. In the NT God commands us to give honor to whom honor is due (the president) so does he not deserve much more honor as our holy righteous God?

I believe you have a scriptural argument here. Traci.
In Malachi chapter one the Lord uses the same argument.
Verse 6. *"A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you" ......
verse 8. *"And if ye offer the blind for sacrifice, is it not evil? and if ye offer the lame and sick, is it not evil? offer it now unto thy governor; will he be pleased with thee, or accept thy person? saith the LORD of hosts."

Really, what wondrous condescending language is here; what supreme patience and forbearance from the King and Maker of the universe speaking to his priests.

I personally think that our main emphasis in showing honor to God as a father is first from the heart of course. Our new testament spiritual sacrifice of worship, which is to offer ourselves. Our dress should be modest of course but beyond that we should just follow protocol. That is what we do for the president or for any public function. We learn what is expected at that given meeting. If we are honorable and desiring to edify, we will endeavor to dress like everyone else. I have found that certain churches are dressier than others. I think dressing is a clear cut cultural issue.

Again, dressing "nice" (ie: suits, ties, dresses, etc) is one application of the scriptural principle you're putting forth here. Yes, we should honor the Lord and edify the church in all things, including how we dress, but what exactly that consists of will vary from person to person and from church to church. One just cannot bind the conscience to specific items of dress like that.
 
If you wouldn't wear it to meet the president then don't wear it to church. In the NT God commands us to give honor to whom honor is due (the president) so does he not deserve much more honor as our holy righteous God?

I believe you have a scriptural argument here. Traci.
In Malachi chapter one the Lord uses the same argument.
Verse 6. *"A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you" ......
verse 8. *"And if ye offer the blind for sacrifice, is it not evil? and if ye offer the lame and sick, is it not evil? offer it now unto thy governor; will he be pleased with thee, or accept thy person? saith the LORD of hosts."

Really, what wondrous condescending language is here; what supreme patience and forbearance from the King and Maker of the universe speaking to his priests.

I personally think that our main emphasis in showing honor to God as a father is first from the heart of course. Our new testament spiritual sacrifice of worship, which is to offer ourselves. Our dress should be modest of course but beyond that we should just follow protocol. That is what we do for the president or for any public function. We learn what is expected at that given meeting. If we are honorable and desiring to edify, we will endeavor to dress like everyone else. I have found that certain churches are dressier than others. I think dressing is a clear cut cultural issue.

Again, dressing "nice" (ie: suits, ties, dresses, etc) is one application of the scriptural principle you're putting forth here. Yes, we should honor the Lord and edify the church in all things, including how we dress, but what exactly that consists of will vary from person to person and from church to church. One just cannot bind the conscience to specific items of dress like that.

Of course a conscience should not be bound in this area by particulars, but wise elders will feel free to give it some influence by the practice of their families as set before the ever-observant eyes of the congregation.
 
Of course a conscience should not be bound in this area by particulars, but wise elders will feel free to give it some influence by the practice of their families as set before the ever-observant eyes of the congregation.

Of course.
 
Kevin, I'm not offended. We've just learned that respect and practicality often meet in the middle. My boy dress nice...but that doesn't include a tie or jacket. Pants wear out quickly...black jeans make more sense as they quickly become playclothes. I have never seen a suit for $20 at WM, but then I haven't been looking.
 
I think everyone is missing the point about dressing nice. What you wear reflects your attitude before God. The high priest had a really nice set of threads before he went into the holy of holies. What would you wear if you were actually going into the presence of God? That is what you are doing Sunday morning.

The closest thing we have to mimic that situation is going before a judge or a king. Most people on trial want to look there best to project that they are clean cut etc. Most in front of a King will wear the best they have as a sign of respect.

I think we should be aware that we are going before the King of kings and the Judge of all the earth and that as a sign of the honor due him we should wear the best we have. In each culture that will differ. In OT times they had the nice fancy cloak and they had the hanging around the desert cloak.

It is a posture of humility and respect and in our culture that is a suit and tie or a nice dress and don't forget the hat. :pilgrim: :p There is a standard and everyone here knows that. Our culture is just going downhill fast in the clothing dept. thanks to tv and movies. :banghead:

As sjonee said: modesty is commanded...the rest is cultural.

If I was engaged in a private visit to the King of Kings and knew about it beforehand I might put on a suit. Or I might not. If I'm feeling particularly RPW the day I wouldn't: where does God command the worshipper, not the priest to wear his or her best clothing as a means of worship? Or where does God command the new covenenant priests (us) to wear special dress? We are charged to dress modestly and that's the extent of our orders.

Church service are not just a visit to the King, but a public meeting of the King's ambassadors in the country in which they serve to which "the local's" are invited. We are charged not to needlessly offend them, and specilfically charged not to make any distinctions because of the way people are dressed (James 2:1-4).

FBC Vancouver is located in the heart of one of the wealthest districts in North America, yet it is less than a 20 minute walk from one of the poorest areas on the continent, so we see all levels of dress on a regular basis. Those with public roles in the services dress from modest semi-formal to suit and tie.
 
I believe the cure to tight jeans in church is that everyone wear them; the tighter the better. This way when the questions are raised as to why "they" are wearing tight jeans then we can all talk about why anyone is wearing tight jeans. :)

I'm Cuban and have gone to some African-American and Latino churches where EVERYTHING was tight because of the "culture." Heck I have seen some "dance teams" or to be precise "dance worship ministries" who left very little to the imagination. When an exotic dancer can come from work and wear less at church than on stage.....there's a problem...more than just one problem but we're just talking about tight clothes here. ;)

The "typical" Latina pentecostal is only allowed to wear skirts which almost reach her ankle and no makeup. Some have gotten by the intended purpose of this legality by wearing tight fitting skirts. They followed the letter of the law but not the intent....and walk around like penguins...:lol: I would be really interested to walk into a few congregations in Miami to see if my suspicions are correct. In November I went to a RCC with my mom and later a Baptist church and "come as you are" seems to mean that you come as you were when you were born because the amount of flesh exposes was sinful....to them and me. :(

Me thinks I's reading too much from those Puritan folk.
 
One can dress nicely without a tie or jacket. And as for $33 on a suit for a boy, though a good deal, is still too much for some families that could better us that to make ends meet or spend that extra keeping their growing boys in supply of pants and shoes that fit. There are poor in this country...are you going to dare tell them how they should dress for worship or presume upon their intentions?

Sorry, folks (and especially you Jamal, if it offended you). My intention was not to dictate a mode of dress but to say that where I go, this is the standard. I was able to dress my boy to well above this standard for not much but could have done it for less yet. No, there is no where in II Corinthians 4 that says that one should wear X+X+X and that is godly.

The reason many of us go this route (that is, suit and tie/full-skirted dress as a standard of 'proper' attire) is that we see such trash in the other direction. Those who cannot afford to wear (or don't know any better than to wear) anything but t-shirt, jeans and sandals, well, God bless 'em. It is those who can dress modestly/respectfully and instead choose to wear something that shows a little more of her cleavage or wear something that shows off how much time he's been spending in the gym, that is what gets my goat. Or seeing a cavalcade of the 'latest' fashions and what's trendy this five minutes. Ugh.

Lately, in my home church, my goat has been got with alarming frequency.




I think everyone is missing the point about dressing nice. What you wear reflects your attitude before God. The high priest had a really nice set of threads before he went into the holy of holies. What would you wear if you were actually going into the presence of God? That is what you are doing Sunday morning.

The closest thing we have to mimic that situation is going before a judge or a king. Most people on trial want to look there best to project that they are clean cut etc. Most in front of a King will wear the best they have as a sign of respect.

I think we should be aware that we are going before the King of kings and the Judge of all the earth and that as a sign of the honor due him we should wear the best we have. In each culture that will differ. In OT times they had the nice fancy cloak and they had the hanging around the desert cloak.

It is a posture of humility and respect and in our culture that is a suit and tie or a nice dress and don't forget the hat. :pilgrim: :p There is a standard and everyone here knows that. Our culture is just going downhill fast in the clothing dept. thanks to tv and movies. :banghead:

I believe you have a scriptural argument here. Traci.
In Malachi chapter one the Lord uses the same argument.
Verse 6. *"A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you" ......
verse 8. *"And if ye offer the blind for sacrifice, is it not evil? and if ye offer the lame and sick, is it not evil? offer it now unto thy governor; will he be pleased with thee, or accept thy person? saith the LORD of hosts."

Really, what wondrous condescending language is here; what supreme patience and forbearance from the King and Maker of the universe speaking to his priests.

I personally think that our main emphasis in showing honor to God as a father is first from the heart of course. Our new testament spiritual sacrifice of worship, which is to offer ourselves. Our dress should be modest of course but beyond that we should just follow protocol. That is what we do for the president or for any public function. We learn what is expected at that given meeting. If we are honorable and desiring to edify, we will endeavor to dress like everyone else. I have found that certain churches are dressier than others. I think dressing is a clear cut cultural issue.

Again, dressing "nice" (ie: suits, ties, dresses, etc) is one application of the scriptural principle you're putting forth here. Yes, we should honor the Lord and edify the church in all things, including how we dress, but what exactly that consists of will vary from person to person and from church to church. One just cannot bind the conscience to specific items of dress like that.

Of course a conscience should not be bound in this area by particulars, but wise elders will feel free to give it some influence by the practice of their families as set before the ever-observant eyes of the congregation.



AGGGGH. It really gets old hearing people say that their dressing more formally is more God-honoring than another's dressing more casually. Please show me where the Bible says that we are not allowed to wear sandals? I wear sandals almost everyday. Yep, $15 sandals--to church, even! Gasp. I am not honoring the King????
And a man wearing sandals is an especially scandalous event? Come on.

No offense intended, but I feel that those of you who are saying that we must look formal happen to prefer that style of clothing. We live in the South (not the deep south, but in the one time Capital of the South) and I do see women dressing pretty formally for church, men wearing bow ties, etc. Do they look pretty? Sure. Is church a fashion show? No--so then it doesn't really matter that they look pretty. It's of no spiritual significance.
When I dress "prettily" do I feel closer to God at church? No, but I do feel closer to all the nice little old ladies or the girls my age, etc.

Whose approval are we really seeking?
 
I also want to add that this kind of thinking is the same mistake the western missionaries have made through history with both Native Americans and those elsewhere in Africa and the East. Somehow, they don't seem to separate their cultural dress from modesty, but rather presume that THEIR clothes are both cultural, more God-honouring, and more modest above all others...rather than actually paying attention, they've made broadbrushed statements (and I've been guilty of the same time to time).
 
I think the main point has been missed here in some of the discussion about clothing. There can be no absolute standard of right and wrong dress in terms of specifics. Modesty is commanded. That much we know. I believe that, beside modesty, no other principles are commanded. If some people find it helpful for their worship attitude to dress up, there is no harm in that, although Peter's injunctions are worth considering. On the other hand, if others do not find that it makes any difference, then they should simply stick to modesty. Personally, I think that a helpful (though not biblically mandated) principle is to wear clothes that will not distract people from the worship of God, whatever that dress might be. A suit and tie would be extremely distracting in, say, an African tribal village. African tribal wear would be extremely distracting in the deep South. Modest and non-distracting seems to me to be the best tack to take on this.
 
Modesty is commanded. That much we know. I believe that, beside modesty, no other principles are commanded.

I agree with you here.

The problem comes into play when some want to mandate their preferences as principles on others lives.

Therefore, if someone says a pastor must wear a jacket and tie to be honoring to the Lord, they are wrong in my opinion because they are attempting to mandate their preference as a principle for someone else.

If their conviction is they need to wear a jacket and tie, then by all means do so, but do not hold it as a principle of honoring the Lord for anyone else.
 
African tribal wear would be extremely distracting in the deep South.

Had to laugh when I read this. While we don't live in the deep South (Kentucky), we have a couple from Ghana who usually dress in beautiful tribal wear. My husband pastors a small, elderly congregation, and yet it does not seem out of place.
 
African tribal wear would be extremely distracting in the deep South.

Had to laugh when I read this. While we don't live in the deep South (Kentucky), we have a couple from Ghana who usually dress in beautiful tribal wear. My husband pastors a small, elderly congregation, and yet it does not seem out of place.

You know. I thought a similar thing. We often had people from Africa attend our worship services growing up who wore traditional clothing. It never seemed out of place. I think this goes to the issue of the heart of the wearer.
 
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