VirginiaHuguenot
Puritanboard Librarian
Sic semper tyrannus!
Stonewall Jackson
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RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
Death to all Tyrants! That's the way I live; that's the way I think.
Now, to the movie:
God allowed the South to lose to be chastened for their failure to reform slavery according to biblical guidelines. As I have mentioned in another thread, such a reform would have ended slavery. Israel was God's people, but he allowed them to lose. Pragmatism doesn't justify a historical conclusion.
Yeah, and the north fought to free slaves. (roll eyes) Lincoln was a racist and a white-supremacist who despised black people. And lets not forget that most godly of abolitionists, John Brown: murderer of women and children.
Amen! When a tyrant tells a group of people that they cannot govern themselves, memories often are quite good. As Jeff Davis said, "A question that is settled by violence or force of arms must always remain unsettled."
Ok, I think I understand what you are getting at. To be honest, some of the sentences were ambiguous in meaning.
You say you favor the South? Ok, I didn't understand at first. I didn't know where you were headed in the review.
Now, to the movie:
God allowed the South to lose to be chastened for their failure to reform slavery according to biblical guidelines. As I have mentioned in another thread, such a reform would have ended slavery. Israel was God's people, but he allowed them to lose. Pragmatism doesn't justify a historical conclusion.
Yeah, and the north fought to free slaves. (roll eyes) Lincoln was a racist and a white-supremacist who despised black people. And lets not forget that most godly of abolitionists, John Brown: murderer of women and children.
Amen! When a tyrant tells a group of people that they cannot govern themselves, memories often are quite good. As Jeff Davis said, "A question that is settled by violence or force of arms must always remain unsettled."
Ok, I think I understand what you are getting at. To be honest, some of the sentences were ambiguous in meaning.
You say you favor the South? Ok, I didn't understand at first. I didn't know where you were headed in the review.
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
Abe Lincoln's Double-Speak
Lincoln on Secession:
Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government and to form one that suits them better. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people that can, may make their own of such territory as they inhabit. More than this, a majority of any portion of such people may revolutionize, putting down a minority intermingling with or near them who oppose their movement
Lincoln on the floor of Congress, 13 January 1848
Congressional Globe, Appendix
1st Session 30th Congress, page 94
Lincoln on Racial Equality:
I am not now, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social or political equality of the white and black races. I am not now nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor of intermarriages with white people. There is a physical difference between the white and the black races which will forever forbid the two races living together on social or political equality. There must be a position of superior and inferior, and I am in favor of assigning the superior position to the white man.
Lincoln in his speech to Charleston, Illinois, 1858
Lincoln on Slavery & Emancipation:
We know that some Southern men do free their slaves, go North and become tip-top abolitionists, while some Northern Men go South and become most cruel masters.
When Southern people tell us that they are no more responsible for the origin of slavery than we are, I acknowledge the fact. When it is said the institution exists, and it is very difficult to get rid of in any satisfactory way, I can understand and appreciate the saying. I surely will not blame them for not doing what I should not know what to do as to the existing institution. My first impulse would possibly be to free all slaves and send them to Liberia to their own native land. But a moment's reflection would convince me that this would not be best for them. If they were all landed there in a day they would all perish in the next ten days, and there is not surplus money enough to carry them there in many times ten days. What then? Free them all and keep them among us as underlings. Is it quite certain that this would alter their conditions? Free them and make them politically and socially our equals? My own feelings will not admit of this, and if mine would, we well know that those of the great mass of whites will not. We cannot make them our equals. A system of gradual emancipation might well be adopted, and I will not undertake to judge our Southern friends for tardiness in this matter.
I acknowledge the constitutional rights of the States "” not grudgingly, but fairly and fully, and I will give them any legislation for reclaiming their fugitive slaves.
The point the Republican party wanted to stress was to oppose making slave States out of the newly acquired territory, not abolishing slavery as it then existed.
Lincoln in speeches at Peoria, Illinois
I have no purpose directly or indirectly to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.
Lincoln's Inaugural Address
Lincoln on Religion:
"My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the sriptures have become clearer and stronger with advancing years, and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them."
1862 letter to Judge J.S. Wakefield, after the death of Willie Lincoln
Any of his comments on Christianity pre-April 1865 ( I will grant his end of life conversion as a historical fact) must be interpreted in this context.
CHeck out Apologia Book Services
Lincoln on Secession:
Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government and to form one that suits them better. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people that can, may make their own of such territory as they inhabit. More than this, a majority of any portion of such people may revolutionize, putting down a minority intermingling with or near them who oppose their movement
Lincoln on the floor of Congress, 13 January 1848
Congressional Globe, Appendix
1st Session 30th Congress, page 94
Lincoln on Racial Equality:
I am not now, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social or political equality of the white and black races. I am not now nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor of intermarriages with white people. There is a physical difference between the white and the black races which will forever forbid the two races living together on social or political equality. There must be a position of superior and inferior, and I am in favor of assigning the superior position to the white man.
Lincoln in his speech to Charleston, Illinois, 1858
Lincoln on Slavery & Emancipation:
We know that some Southern men do free their slaves, go North and become tip-top abolitionists, while some Northern Men go South and become most cruel masters.
When Southern people tell us that they are no more responsible for the origin of slavery than we are, I acknowledge the fact. When it is said the institution exists, and it is very difficult to get rid of in any satisfactory way, I can understand and appreciate the saying. I surely will not blame them for not doing what I should not know what to do as to the existing institution. My first impulse would possibly be to free all slaves and send them to Liberia to their own native land. But a moment's reflection would convince me that this would not be best for them. If they were all landed there in a day they would all perish in the next ten days, and there is not surplus money enough to carry them there in many times ten days. What then? Free them all and keep them among us as underlings. Is it quite certain that this would alter their conditions? Free them and make them politically and socially our equals? My own feelings will not admit of this, and if mine would, we well know that those of the great mass of whites will not. We cannot make them our equals. A system of gradual emancipation might well be adopted, and I will not undertake to judge our Southern friends for tardiness in this matter.
I acknowledge the constitutional rights of the States "” not grudgingly, but fairly and fully, and I will give them any legislation for reclaiming their fugitive slaves.
The point the Republican party wanted to stress was to oppose making slave States out of the newly acquired territory, not abolishing slavery as it then existed.
Lincoln in speeches at Peoria, Illinois
I have no purpose directly or indirectly to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.
Lincoln's Inaugural Address
Lincoln on Religion:
"My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the sriptures have become clearer and stronger with advancing years, and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them."
1862 letter to Judge J.S. Wakefield, after the death of Willie Lincoln
Any of his comments on Christianity pre-April 1865 ( I will grant his end of life conversion as a historical fact) must be interpreted in this context.
CHeck out Apologia Book Services
rmwilliamsjr
Puritan Board Freshman
do you have a link to the other thread you mentioned?
about this quote.
thus far in my studies i found an essay "The Bible and Slavery" by Mark Noll in _Religion and the American Civil War_ extremely helpful pointing at Robert Breckridge as the major player in the South with this viewpoint pg. 59. I have read C. Hodge's analysis and would be interested in your references. I am still trying to finish my essays on the Civil War so it is a big deal for me just now.
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
Eugene Genovese's work on the subject is masterful and completely destroyed liberal scholarship. Oddly enough, the link should be familiar to you--Dabney on Virginia
A Consuming Fire: The Fall of the Confederacy in the Mind of the White Christian South.
I would also highly suggest Dr Joe Morecraft's lectures on Dabney available at Apologia Books.
rmwilliamsjr
Puritan Board Freshman
i've skimmed Genovese. looks interesting. nice short book *grin*. busy with several Phd thesis this week, plus writing.
i did find these:
http://www.chalcedon.org/modules/content/index.php?id=8
Pastor Joe Morecraft's Chalcedon Church page
http://www.pointsouth.com/Merchant2...HRISTIAN&Category_Code=LECTURE&Store_Code=ABS
sales page for the tapes you recommended.
i'll blog your notes....thanks.
i did find these:
http://www.chalcedon.org/modules/content/index.php?id=8
Pastor Joe Morecraft's Chalcedon Church page
http://www.pointsouth.com/Merchant2...HRISTIAN&Category_Code=LECTURE&Store_Code=ABS
sales page for the tapes you recommended.
i'll blog your notes....thanks.
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
Morecraft is one of my heroes.
cornelius vantil
Puritan Board Freshman
i am not white nor was i raised in southern culture (i consider tampa a colony of new york... if you live here you know what i mean) yet i am a die hard southern sympathiser! Stonewall Jackson is a man i hold in hisg esteem. 2 weeks ago i stood at manassas battle next to the statue of Jackson..it was one moment i have looked forward to for a long time.
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
I went to the Vicksburg Battlefield this spring. It was a purifying experience.
strangerpilgrim
Puritan Board Freshman
All you fans of the admirable general ought to read the biography of him written by his wife. I have no idea the title, or where it could be gotten. I happened to stumble across it many years ago in the Bob Jones University library. This biography gives a different picture from all the others--which concentrate on his public life. His wife deals primarily with his private home life, his religious life and his letters. Very good.
VirginiaHuguenot
Puritanboard Librarian
There are two books by Mary Anna Jackson: Memoirs of Stonewall Jackson by his Widow and Life and Letters of Gen. Thomas J. Jackson (Stonewall Jackson). Both highly recommended!
VirginiaHuguenot
Puritanboard Librarian
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
One of the best scenes is at the eve of Fredericksburg in Gods and Generals
it is right before (or as) the Battle of Fredericksburg begins where Union general Lawrence Chamberlain is likening (well first, it is a misty morning as the Union troops are crossing the river into southern cannon fire) the crossing of the river to Caesar's crossing of the rubicon. He quotes a passage from a Roman Poet (a very good speech, btw) and ends the speech with,
"From now on, let war be our judge." And then Jacskon's cannons open fire.
After that inital blast, Chamberlain concludes,
Hail Caesar, we who are about to die, salute you!
Right when he says that the Southern guns go crazy while Wagner is plauing in the background
it is right before (or as) the Battle of Fredericksburg begins where Union general Lawrence Chamberlain is likening (well first, it is a misty morning as the Union troops are crossing the river into southern cannon fire) the crossing of the river to Caesar's crossing of the rubicon. He quotes a passage from a Roman Poet (a very good speech, btw) and ends the speech with,
"From now on, let war be our judge." And then Jacskon's cannons open fire.
After that inital blast, Chamberlain concludes,
Hail Caesar, we who are about to die, salute you!
Right when he says that the Southern guns go crazy while Wagner is plauing in the background
VirginiaHuguenot
Puritanboard Librarian
Stonewall Jackson's Book of Maxims is a very good read. 
VirginiaHuguenot
Puritanboard Librarian
This is a compilation of places I have visited which relate to Stonewall Jackson's life or honor his memory:
Clarksburg, West Virginia, Stonewall Jackson's Birthplace
Jackson's Mill, West Virginia, Stonewall Jackson's Boyhood Home
United States Military Academy, West Point, New York
Virginia Military Institute, Lexington, Virginia
Stonewall Jackson House, Lexington, Virginia
Lexington, Virginia Presbyterian Church
Harper's Ferry, West Virginia
Jackson's Crossing, Skyline Drive, Shenandoah National Park, Virginia
Manassas National Battlefield Park, Manassas, Virginia
Stonewall Jackson's Headquarters, Winchester, Virginia
Antietam National Battlefield, Sharpsburg, Maryland
Richmond National Battlefield Park, Richmond, Virginia
Monument Avenue, Richmond, Virginia
Museum of the Confederacy, Richmond, Virginia
Fredericksburg and Chancellorsville, Virginia
Stonewall Jackson Shrine, Guinea Station, Virginia
Stonewall Jackson Memorial Cemetery, Lexington, Virginia
Stonewall Jackson Museum, Strasburg, Virginia
Jackson's Crossing Family Restaurant, Luray, Virginia
And some places I look forward to visiting, dv:
Stonewall Jackson Inn Bed & Breakfast, Harrisonburg, Virginia
Stonewall Jackson Hotel, Staunton, Virginia
[Edited on 8-27-2005 by VirginiaHuguenot]
Clarksburg, West Virginia, Stonewall Jackson's Birthplace
Jackson's Mill, West Virginia, Stonewall Jackson's Boyhood Home
United States Military Academy, West Point, New York
Virginia Military Institute, Lexington, Virginia
Stonewall Jackson House, Lexington, Virginia
Lexington, Virginia Presbyterian Church
Harper's Ferry, West Virginia
Jackson's Crossing, Skyline Drive, Shenandoah National Park, Virginia
Manassas National Battlefield Park, Manassas, Virginia
Stonewall Jackson's Headquarters, Winchester, Virginia
Antietam National Battlefield, Sharpsburg, Maryland
Richmond National Battlefield Park, Richmond, Virginia
Monument Avenue, Richmond, Virginia
Museum of the Confederacy, Richmond, Virginia
Fredericksburg and Chancellorsville, Virginia
Stonewall Jackson Shrine, Guinea Station, Virginia
Stonewall Jackson Memorial Cemetery, Lexington, Virginia
Stonewall Jackson Museum, Strasburg, Virginia
Jackson's Crossing Family Restaurant, Luray, Virginia
And some places I look forward to visiting, dv:
Stonewall Jackson Inn Bed & Breakfast, Harrisonburg, Virginia
Stonewall Jackson Hotel, Staunton, Virginia
[Edited on 8-27-2005 by VirginiaHuguenot]
You wonderful fanatic.
VirginiaHuguenot
Puritanboard Librarian
Not a fanatic, just a fan.
Well, ok, guilty as charged! 
VirginiaHuguenot
Puritanboard Librarian
Does it say FCC&C? Very nice pic.
Mort Kunstler says that he specifically drew this picture of Julia Jackson as a baby to make an allusion to the St. Andrew's Cross.
Mort Kunstler says that he specifically drew this picture of Julia Jackson as a baby to make an allusion to the St. Andrew's Cross.
Originally posted by Peter
Julia Jackson (Stonewall's daughter)
If you look closely at the pennant of St. Andrew's cross ...
notice the writing around the cross?
[Edited on 8-27-2005 by Peter]
VirginiaHuguenot
Puritanboard Librarian
That's just awesome! 
VirginiaHuguenot
Puritanboard Librarian
That's right. I'm not sure if it's been mentioned in this thread but the last move of the trilogy is supposed to be Last Full Measure.
VirginiaHuguenot
Puritanboard Librarian
Happy birthday to Stonewall Jackson!
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
O, for more to rise up!
Puritanhead
Puritan Board Professor
Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
Happy birthday to Stonewall Jackson!
Puritanhead
Puritan Board Professor
I planted a cotton Confederate flag in the ground at the site where Jackson's hand is buried in 2001... I forget exactly where it is at in Virginia-- somewhere off I-95... it's in middle of no where in vicinity of Chancellorsville.
VirginiaHuguenot
Puritanboard Librarian
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