Separation between church and career.

[Edward]

@Jonathan95

Giving the most charitable spin to what your pastor said - perhaps he was in-artfully trying to pay you a complement as an excellent employee that he didn't want to have to try to replace.

our church doesn't have any coffee shops, but we do have both regular and decaf after the service. Unfortunately, that is only a volunteer position at this time.

We don't have a coffee shop either, but grinding the beans on for the free coffee is part of the position description for the Sextons.

 

[Jonathan95]

Haha! I do love hot chocolate!

It is difficult to say where the confusion lies exactly. When I was in SBC circles, the problem tended to be that they thought the Great Commission was given to everyone: everyone is to be an evangelist, just as much as a pastor. This thought was never carried through consistently: only pastors preached or baptized, etc. But the "mission" of the Great Commission to evangelize as a special calling of God was thought to be given to all believers. Everyone becomes a minister; a pastor becomes just a special kind of minister who is a bit more educated and has leadership gifts. A person's secular vocation becomes just a means to the end of evangelism because evangelism is the prime calling on a person's life.

In reality, the Great Commission is given to the Church: more specifically, in our time, pastors. Laymen have no special calling of God to evangelize, neither is it their prime vocation to evangelize, but they do have an ordinary duty that arises from love to fellow men and zeal for Christ to speak well of and for Christ. They are not official ambassadors of the kingdom, but as citizens that are fond of the kingdom and its king, they will make some use of their time (as God gives it) to try and persuade others to come and join them, instead of perishing.

Yes! In fact I feel at times that my church is so focused on evangelistic efforts that they don't really focus on the holiness of God and how we are also to grow in holiness as His people.

This is not to say that my church puts zero emphasis on growing in holiness as a church. It's just that it's not primarily a Lord's day conversation from the pulpit. You will hear about it in groups throughout the week and if you were to approach the elders and staff they would have no trouble diving deep in that way.

Sunday morning sermons seem to be primarily focused on equipping the saints for their work in sharing the gospel and living as a light in the city at all times.

 

[Jonathan95]

@Jonathan95

Giving the most charitable spin to what your pastor said - perhaps he was in-artfully trying to pay you a complement as an excellent employee that he didn't want to have to try to replace.



We don't have a coffee shop either, but grinding the beans on for the free coffee is part of the position description for the Sextons.

I don't doubt it. It just had me rolling my eyes because I doubt I would've heard the same thing if he didn't have a personal stake in how I choose to progress in my career.

 

[Chad Hutson]

I would never impose upon a congregant's employment opportunities unless they were sinful or required missing services on the Lord's Day (I repeat myself). Just to respond to what you wrote and assuming it is the complete picture, you should take the job if the Lord leads and blesses. That will be your new mission field. Make connections, meet new people, forge new relationships, and spread the gospel!

 

[Ben Zartman]

If your church is running a for-profit business, how do they keep their tax-exempt status?
Kind of unrelated: Can your elders show you from Scripture where God commands that a church should run a restaurant? It seems a funky model of church support, when according to Paul they that labor in the Gospel should live of the Gospel (basically that preachers oughtta be paid). Is the shop open on Sundays?

 

[Wretched Man]

This post looks like a Babylon Bee article.

 

[Jonathan95]

If your church is running a for-profit business, how do they keep their tax-exempt status?
Kind of unrelated: Can your elders show you from Scripture where God commands that a church should run a restaurant? It seems a funky model of church support, when according to Paul they that labor in the Gospel should live of the Gospel (basically that preachers oughtta be paid). Is the shop open on Sundays?

It's a nonprofit. The church doesn't technically run it. They are technically two separate things. None of the income goes to the church itself. Just upkeep for the shop and manager salaries. Most of the staff is volunteers. Most of the money gets donated to another local nonprofit each month. Never Sundays.

The namesake is taken from the context of John 4. The woman at the well. And how the well is a place that everybody has to go. And so The Well Coffee House was started as a way to get people in who are far from God. This opening up opportunities to have regular customers come in who we can share the faith with as we get to know each other.

 

[Pergamum]

Haha! I do love hot chocolate!

It is difficult to say where the confusion lies exactly. When I was in SBC circles, the problem tended to be that they thought the Great Commission was given to everyone: everyone is to be an evangelist, just as much as a pastor. This thought was never carried through consistently: only pastors preached or baptized, etc. But the "mission" of the Great Commission to evangelize as a special calling of God was thought to be given to all believers. Everyone becomes a minister; a pastor becomes just a special kind of minister who is a bit more educated and has leadership gifts. A person's secular vocation becomes just a means to the end of evangelism because evangelism is the prime calling on a person's life.

In reality, the Great Commission is given to the Church: more specifically, in our time, pastors. Laymen have no special calling of God to evangelize, neither is it their prime vocation to evangelize, but they do have an ordinary duty that arises from love to fellow men and zeal for Christ to speak well of and for Christ. They are not official ambassadors of the kingdom, but as citizens that are fond of the kingdom and its king, they will make some use of their time (as God gives it) to try and persuade others to come and join them, instead of perishing.

Let's not tread over this tired subject again. Every single Christian is called to be a witness. Every Christian takes part in the Great Commission in some manner (praying, going, sending).

The bigger issue is coffee shops as a means to church planting. It is a faulty SBC methodology. Opening a coffee shop is not missions.

I don't know how I feel about such efforts being able to get non-profit status. But I don't think they are a very good way to spread the Gospel. If the SBC wants to do missions I know 1,000 more effective and more direct things they could do than open low-paying coffee shops.

 

[Ben Zartman]

It's a nonprofit. The church doesn't technically run it. They are technically two separate things. None of the income goes to the church itself. Just upkeep for the shop and manager salaries. Most of the staff is volunteers. Most of the money gets donated to another local nonprofit each month. Never Sundays.

The namesake is taken from the context of John 4. The woman at the well. And how the well is a place that everybody has to go. And so The Well Coffee House was started as a way to get people in who are far from God. This opening up opportunities to have regular customers come in who we can share the faith with as we get to know each other.

I see. If as you say most of the money gets donated to another local nonprofit, it seems that they could simply pay staff more, thus having a better testimony among their employees. Judgment begins, after all, at the house of God. "You shall not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn." Technically, if they could be paying you more, and they refuse out of obduracy rather than necessity or because you're not worth more, they are stealing from you. "Withold not good from him to whom it is due." Get a better job. Don't waste your talents being shortchanged by misguided guilt-trippers.

 

[Jonathan95]

I see. If as you say most of the money gets donated to another local nonprofit, it seems that they could simply pay staff more, thus having a better testimony among their employees. Judgment begins, after all, at the house of God. "You shall not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn." Technically, if they could be paying you more, and they refuse out of obduracy rather than necessity or because you're not worth more, they are stealing from you. "Withold not good from him to whom it is due." Get a better job. Don't waste your talents being shortchanged by misguided guilt-trippers.

Thank you for your words. They are not even responsible for paying me. A financial building downtown heard about us and offered to bring us into the building as an amenity for the companies there. Which means thousands of customers and free drinks for them all. So the building pays for supplies and our wages. $17 an hour. In turn, we get to hold Bible studies and make use of the space whenever we please.

 

[Afterthought]

Let's not tread over this tired subject again. Every single Christian is called to be a witness. Every Christian takes part in the Great Commission in some manner (praying, going, sending).

I am Presbyterian. I am obviously going to answer in a Presbyterian manner that takes a high view of church office, as you will answer in a Baptist manner. Nevertheless, this quoted portion shows a lack of understanding of what I said.