Reformed Consensus on Images of Christ

[Goodcheer68]

I'm certainly not saying that someone can't be saved unless they understand all the commandments or that salvation is by works. God forbid! But we should be faithful to the Bible. We don't accept easy-believism's "once-prayed-a-prayer-always-saved". We believe in the robust, Calvinistic doctrine of the perseverance of the saints. Not this American foolishness where one altar call can give you assurance of salvation. Only Christ can save, and He will not leave us wallowing in our sin.

I agree whole-heartily with what you said. However, it just seemed that Mcmahon was saying something else, and would be in question of Sproul's salvation. That is why I asked for clarification of what he believed. Obviously he hasn't replied but thanks for your response

Patrick

 

[jeclark71]

If I may, can I please ask a question concerning this issue. I am new to this topic and just wanted to ask if the commandment was A.) concerning God, or B.) false gods, because it seems like verses 3 and 5 of Exodus 20 are referring to false gods? In Deuteronomy 5:9 God refers to the false gods. Also does not Isaiah 53:1-3 and revelation 1:12 give us a mental picture of Jesus, I mean your mind automatically fills in the image of this description. I am new to this and have had pictures of Jesus and no we do not worship it, but I can see where one can come to the desire to think it represents to true image. I am Just asking to learn a lot of helpful information through out this post thank you.

 

[davenporter]

If I may, can I please ask a question concerning this issue. I am new to this topic and just wanted to ask if the commandment was A.) concerning God, or B.) false gods, because it seems like verses 3 and 5 of Exodus 20 are referring to false gods? In Deuteronomy 5:9 God refers to the false gods. Also does not Isaiah 53:1-3 and revelation 1:12 give us a mental picture of Jesus, I mean your mind automatically fills in the image of this description. I am new to this and have had pictures of Jesus and no we do not worship it, but I can see where one can come to the desire to think it represents to true image. I am Just asking to learn a lot of helpful information through out this post thank you.

Hey brother,

Here is what the Westminster Larger Catechism has to say about the second commandment:

Question 107: Which is the second commandment?

Answer: The second commandment is, Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; and showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Question 108: What are the duties required in the second commandment?

Answer: The duties required in the second commandment are, the receiving, observing, and keeping pure and entire, all such religious worship and ordinances as God has instituted in his Word; particularly prayer and thanksgiving in the name of Christ; the reading, preaching, and hearing of the Word; the administration and receiving of the sacraments; church government and discipline; the ministry and maintenance thereof; religious fasting; swearing by the name of God, and vowing unto him: as also the disapproving, detesting, opposing, all false worship; and, according to each one's place and calling, removing it, and all monuments of idolatry.

Question 109: What are the sins forbidden in the second commandment?

Answer: The sins forbidden in the second commandment are, all devising, counseling, commanding, using, and anywise approving, any religious worship not instituted by God himself; tolerating a false religion; the making any representation of God, of all or of any of the three persons, either inwardly in our mind, or outwardly in any kind of image or likeness of any creature: Whatsoever; all worshipping of it, or God in it or by it; the making of any representation of feigned deities, and all worship of them, or service belonging to them; all superstitious devices, corrupting the worship of God, adding to it, or taking from it, whether invented and taken up of ourselves, or received by tradition from others, though under the title of antiquity, custom, devotion, good intent, or any other pretense: Whatsoever; simony; sacrilege; all neglect, contempt, hindering, and opposing the worship and ordinances which God has appointed.

Question 110: What are the reasons annexed to the second commandment, the more to enforce it?

Answer: The reasons annexed to the second commandment, the more to enforce it, contained in these words, For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; and showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments; are, besides God's sovereignty over us, and propriety in us, his fervent zeal for his own worship, and his revengeful indignation against all false worship, as being a spiritual whoredom; accounting the breakers of this commandment such as hate him, and threatening to punish them unto divers generations; and esteeming the observers of it such as love him and keep his commandments, and promising mercy to them unto many generations.

Hope that helps! There is a lot more out there written on the issue, and this discussion has been had on the Puritan Board quite a few times in the past. Here is one thread that may help to start your thinking on this issue.

http://www.puritanboard.com/f15/do-all-images-Christ-violate-2nd-commandment-59642/

 

[jeclark71]

Thank you Benjamin, I will look into this and thank you for your answer. The London confession asks what is forbidden in the second commandment? Then reads the second commandment forbids the worshipping of God by images, or any other way not appointed in His Word and gave Deuteronomy 4:15 and 2 Colossians 2:18. My understanding had been that Deuteronomy was referring to God the Father who is Spirit (John 4:24) who has no equal or physical reference. I will study this more and I thank you for your time in answering this and for the link.

 

[Pilgrim Standard]

"... it never fails with mankind that we look upon it as it actually being him and thus it is a graven image."

It is a graven image because it is worked by the hand of men, not because mankind will look upon it as actually being Him. It is a forbidden graven image because it is a represnetation of God in a manner explicitly forbidden. One can not divide the hypostatic union, and images of Christ by their nature cause us to contemplate Christ through visual rather than aural functions which in and of itself is an act of idol worship.

Consider the base pagan. Even they do not claim the Idols of Stone, Metal, Wood, or Paint are the actual gods they worship themselves. These are representations of the gods they worship, made by the hands of men in 2 or 3 demensions, and a definite geographic local.

we do not say "mankind will look upon a graven image of God as actually being God therefore it is a graven image."

we do say: "
Deuteronomy 4:15-19. Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the LORD spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire: Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female, The likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air, The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth: And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.

Acts 17:29. Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Romans 1:21-23, 25. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.... Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
"