Postmillennialism and the Law

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Dachaser said:
The Law as a way to govern was just given to Israel, as that was under the economy of the Old Covenant, and that is not a Dispensational view, as the Law as to its moral aspect is indeed still binding on us, but the civil and ceremonial aspects was just intended to be used in Israel of that time.
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So, beastiality is ok now because it was under the civil law? I am being sarcastic of course. This is something I am interested in as a topic. But can you show me in scripture where God has decided that rape should not be punnishable by death? The Ceremonial law foreshadowed Jesus. We don't need to go to the temple and offer sacrifices anymore like was required in the OT. But why would civil law change? God says the crime should be punished in a specific way. Does man have a better way?
 
Dachaser said:
God gave the ceremonial and civil obligation of the Mosaic law unto just Israel herself, but we are still under the moral obligations aspect of His law still.
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What is the Church in your opinion? Is the Church Israel? And you still haven't quoted any scripture to a back up anyhting you have said.
 
Dachaser said:
God gave the ceremonial and civil obligation of the Mosaic law unto just Israel herself, but we are still under the moral obligations aspect of His law still.
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What is the just punishment for adultery? The prohibition against adultery is part of the moral law. So what is the just punishment and how do we know it meets the standards of justice?
 
BayouHuguenot said:
What is the just punishment for adultery? The prohibition against adultery is part of the moral law. So what is the just punishment and how do we know it meets the standards of justice?
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Jesus showed to us that Grace trumps the Law though, as he saved the woman caught in adultery from being stoned to death, and David should have died per the law, but God freely forgive him also.
 
Dachaser said:
Jesus showed to us that Grace trumps the Law though, as he saved the woman caught in adultery from being stoned to death, and David should have died per the law, but God freely forgive him also.
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The woman in adultery scenario is convoluted, as none of the Jews were following the law. And God's forgiving David doesn't parallel for us, since we aren't God.

So, the state shouldn't punish adultery by any means, then?
 
pslagle2012 said:
I very much lean toward a postmillennial view of eschatology, however I just can't swallow the theonomic or Covenanter views of the law and its place in the millennium. I hold to the usual Reformed view of the threefold division of the law, with only the moral law being binding. I also definitely believe that the millennium will be ushered in by the preaching of the gospel not through cultural transformation or the influence of the law on politics.

I am unable to find much online about non-theonomic postmillennialism and have at least found some evidence that older postmils held similar beliefs to mine ("pietistic postmillennialism?"). I was wondering if anyone has some resources that are based on a non-theonomic view of postmillennialism and possibly book recommendations. Also, any authors or theologians who held this view would be helpful. Thanks!
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Old Princetonians, Lorraine Boettner, John Jefferson Davis, and (but be ye careful) James Jordan. Boettner's book is required reading. The historical lines between amill and postmill are blurry. When I was at Covenant Seminary 96-00 I was the only card carrying theonomist on campus. Jack Collins was/is postmill, but not a theonomist. I'm still post-mill, but not overly theonomic in the classical sense of the word.
 
BayouHuguenot said:
No one is arguing that we should keep the law to be saved. Theonomists are very clear on that.
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Well noted. JBFA; sanctification via Law is the basic outline. In many respects this is correct, it gets tricky when you've got a Muslim mayor advocating sharia, or a whack job president who attacks Traditional Christianity with every turn.
 
BayouHuguenot said:
The woman in adultery scenario is convoluted, as none of the Jews were following the law. And God's forgiving David doesn't parallel for us, since we aren't God.

So, the state shouldn't punish adultery by any means, then?
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And folks forget that this was still under the Old Covenant. Which means the stoning was licit. The catch was, the man was missing from the trial, and Jesus obviously read the hearts of the gents trying to hold court and found at least some guilty of the crime. The text is also possibly....spurious. It rings like a true narrative; I personally believe the event occurred exactly as it's recorded. But the textual evidence of its original enclosure is by no means convincing.
 
I'm no Moderator, but hasn't the thread been hijacked a bit? The OP was asking for resources. Thornwell's take in Collected Writings is excellent. You can also follow previous threads and the threads that roll off it. Lots of fun, that!
https://www.puritanboard.com/threads/postmill-theonomy-presuppositionist-distinctions.8106/
https://www.puritanboard.com/threads/postmillennialism-and-the-reformed-confessions.1362/
https://www.puritanboard.com/threads/puritan-postmillennialism-v-rushdoony-postmillennialism.3386/
 
BayouHuguenot said:
Grace doesn't trump the law. The whole point of the atonement is that God's law was met, not trumped (Otherwise we are still in our sins)
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that would be a better way of saying this truth, as the Grace of God would be meeting the Law and its requirements at the Cross of Christ, but the truth is still that God did withhold the death penalty demanded by the law to be executed upon David and her.
 
Clark-Tillian said:
Well noted. JBFA; sanctification via Law is the basic outline. In many respects this is correct, it gets tricky when you've got a Muslim mayor advocating sharia, or a whack job president who attacks Traditional Christianity with every turn.
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There would be though no biblical support for even having the Law in all of its OT aspects be enforced over Christians today, for we are still under its moral aspects, but not he ceremonial and civil aspects.
And I thought that reconstructionists and others wanted to have the law imposed and set up as the governing standards for all in the society?
 
Clark-Tillian said:
The catch was, the man was missing from the trial, and Jesus obviously read the hearts of the gents trying to hold court and found at least some guilty of the crime.
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What trial? I don't read of any trial; just a lynching.

There's one more problem. John 18:31:
Then said Pilate unto them, Take ye him, and judge him according to your law. The Jews therefore said unto him, It is not lawful for us to put any man to death
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Dachaser said:
that would be a better way of saying this truth, as the Grace of God would be meeting the Law and its requirements at the Cross of Christ, but the truth is still that God did withhold the death penalty demanded by the law to be executed upon David and her.
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Be that as it may, the civil magistrate isn't God, nor does he have those prerogatives. Otherwise, we could waive all penalties for all crimes whatsoever.
 
Dachaser said:
There would be though no biblical support for even having the Law in all of its OT aspects be enforced over Christians today, for we are still under its moral aspects, but not he ceremonial and civil aspects.
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Should the state punish bestiality?
Dachaser said:
And I thought that reconstructionists and others wanted to have the law imposed and set up as the governing standards for all in the society?
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All law by definition is imposed, so I don't see the problem. And it isn't going to be a handful of recons imposing law on 200 million pagans.
 
BayouHuguenot said:
Should the state punish bestiality?
Yes, the governemntshould still punish crimes, but was just suggesting that we would no longer want to have adultery and homosexuals killed off for their sins, , as they currently due in Islamic nations.


All law by definition is imposed, so I don't see the problem. And it isn't going to be a handful of recons imposing law on 200 million pagans.
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I don't think He REQUIRED all of those crimes to be punished by death, it was just on the table. However, where do you find that the JUST punishment for rape,murder etc, is not death anymore. If it was just then, it is just now. Same God, Same Standard.
 

Now, to be honest how many times in the Bible are Adulters or Homosexuals stoned?
 
Edm said:
I don't think He REQUIRED all of those crimes to be punished by death, it was just on the table. However, where do you find that the JUST punishment for rape,murder etc, is not death anymore. If it was just then, it is just now. Same God, Same Standard.
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That would be the just penalty under the Mosaic Law, but the Lord also allowed for them not to have death penalty imposed, see David and the woman caught in adultery and taken to Jesus.
 
Dachaser said:
That would be the just penalty under the Mosaic Law, but the Lord also allowed for them not to have death penalty imposed, see David and the woman caught in adultery and taken to Jesus.
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We've already proven that the woman in adultery case is a non-starter, so no need to bring it up.

In fact, I can grant that execution is a maximum penalty. I think I said that several times. Now, back to the question:

What is the just punishment for bestiality?
 
BayouHuguenot said:
We've already proven that the woman in adultery case is a non-starter, so no need to bring it up.

In fact, I can grant that execution is a maximum penalty. I think I said that several times. Now, back to the question:

What is the just punishment for bestiality?
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The person should go to jail, and also have therapy for that state, and also told the good news of new life in Jesus available to them.
 
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