Non-sabbatarians certainly damned?

Why would they be? We are not saved by our perfect theology but by the perfect righteousness of Christ. All of us have imperfections in our understanding of the truth.
 
Reformed or not, none keep the 4th commandment perfectly. Thanks be unto God for the Lord Jesus Christ!
 
Ryan&Amber2013 said:
What makes you think they would?
Click to expand...
Obstinately and willingly breaking any one of the other commandments in the decalogue would result in damnation, wouldn’t it? Which isn’t to say that salvation is by works, as it most definitely isn’t, and we know that absolutely no one apart from Christ could keep any of them, but if one has no desire to conform to the commandments of God, isn’t that evidence they aren’t regenerate? (1 John 2:3-6)

If someone believes they aren’t obligated to obey the fourth commandment under the new covenant, and as a result, both often works on the sabbath and doesn’t go to church every week, which is not to say that weekly church attendance is required for you to enter into the kingdom of heaven, rather that those who are truly saved desire fellowship with others of the same nature, can that person reasonably assumed to be born again? (2 Cor. 5:17; Matt. 7:20)
 
Recipient of Grace said:
Obstinately and willingly breaking any one of the other commandments in the decalogue would result in damnation, wouldn’t it?
Click to expand...
Although I would like to think differently, I don't know that I've ever sent other than willfully. That's pretty much what makes it a sin, is it not?

Edit: although I waited almost 40 years to know this, I do now for five or six years surely no that my wretched self will be in heaven and changed into his likeness someday. He sees me as pretty beautiful right now. Remember, we were no small part of that Joy which was set before Christ that helped him to endure the cross. He Loves Us wildly passionately, I need to say it, romantically, too.
 
Recipient of Grace said:
Obstinately and willingly breaking any one of the other commandments in the decalogue would result in damnation, wouldn’t it? Which isn’t to say that salvation is by works, as it most definitely isn’t, and we know that absolutely no one apart from Christ could keep any of them, but if one has no desire to conform to the commandments of God, isn’t that evidence they aren’t regenerate? (1 John 2:3-6)

If someone believes they aren’t obligated to obey the fourth commandment under the new covenant, and as a result, both often works on the sabbath and doesn’t go to church every week, which is not to say that weekly church attendance is required for you to enter into the kingdom of heaven, rather that those who are truly saved desire fellowship with others of the same nature, can that person reasonably assumed to be born again? (2 Cor. 5:17; Matt. 7:20)
Click to expand...
When I think of the Sabbath, and working, I always keep in mind a contrast. While we should reverence the Lords Day, and we should desire to fellowship, and keep it holy, the Bible does also call a person who does not take care of their household worse than an unbeliever. If I had to choose between working, and providing for my family; which may mean working on Sunday, and missing the Sabbath, I would always choose the former. God is awesome, and knows the desires of our hearts. I would lean on his mercy, and his sovereignty in providing a way for me to obey him, patiently, then take it upon myself and put my family in risk of neglect; especially when the bible specifically prohibits that. We would like to think anybody can get a Mon-Fri. job, but for many, it is easier said than done.
 
Recipient of Grace said:
Obstinately and willingly breaking any one of the other commandments in the decalogue would result in damnation, wouldn’t it?
Click to expand...
But if they are not convinced of biblical Sabbath-keeping is that truly a case of them obstinately and willingly breaking a commandment? What of the droves of churches that have no issue with images of Christ? Or don't baptize their infants? Or don't sing the Psalms exclusively? I am by no means saying these things don't matter, but I am a beggar of mercy and I can only be saved by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. As others have noted, thankfully God does not require of us perfect theology to be regenerated.
Now, God does say, "...whatsoever is not of faith is sin." (Rom 14:23) so if there was a person who was truly convinced of Sabbath-keeping and thought they should abstain from their normal works and recreations on the Lord's Day but they just couldn't pass up an opportunity to pick up an extra shift and earn some extra cash...then yes, that person needs to carefully examine their heart because if they can continue in unrepentant sin without any bother to their conscience and any desire to repent and change, then this person is in danger of being a false convert, whether it be the 4th commandment or any other. Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid.
 
Last edited:
Recipient of Grace said:
Obstinately and willingly breaking any one of the other commandments in the decalogue would result in damnation, wouldn’t it? Which isn’t to say that salvation is by works, as it most definitely isn’t, and we know that absolutely no one apart from Christ could keep any of them, but if one has no desire to conform to the commandments of God, isn’t that evidence they aren’t regenerate? (1 John 2:3-6)

If someone believes they aren’t obligated to obey the fourth commandment under the new covenant, and as a result, both often works on the sabbath and doesn’t go to church every week, which is not to say that weekly church attendance is required for you to enter into the kingdom of heaven, rather that those who are truly saved desire fellowship with others of the same nature, can that person reasonably assumed to be born again? (2 Cor. 5:17; Matt. 7:20)
Click to expand...
People that don't obey the Sabbath commandment and know what they are doing, don't think it is sin or disobedience to not obey the Sabbath. They think Christ has given them freedom in this area, so they believe they are honoring God. I'm not down-playing the Sabbath, but people who don't obey the Sabbath can make a very strong Biblical case for why they don't. This is very different from willful disobedience. I would say this would fall into a misunderstanding of doctrine, with good intentions and love for God. Now if somebody is intentionally neglecting the Church body when there is a clear commandment not to do so, that's where I would say there's more of willful sin.
 
Ryan&Amber2013 said:
I would say this would fall into a misunderstanding of doctrine, with good intentions and love for God.
Click to expand...
So something along the lines of 2 Cor. 8:12? I don’t mean that passage necessarily applies to this situation, although it might. I have been (rightfully) accused of eisegesis before… Also, despite their good intentions, it is nonetheless sin, correct? (Lev. 5:17)

Surely, I am the chief of sinners (though @Ed Walsh will fight me on this one); I am saved purely by the grace of God, as every other man who ever has or ever will inherit the kingdom of heaven. Forgive my foolish question, brethren. I was only concerned for the souls of some in my family, whom I hold dear.

Blessed be God for Jesus Christ! (Rom. 5:1, 8:1; Eph. 2:1-9, 4:32; 1 John 2:1-2)
 
Recipient of Grace said:
So something along the lines of 2 Cor. 8:12? I don’t mean that passage necessarily applies to this situation, although it might. I have been (rightfully) accused of eisegesis before… Also, despite their good intentions, it is nonetheless sin, correct? (Lev. 5:17)

Surely, I am the chief of sinners (though @Ed Walsh will fight me on this one); I am saved purely by the grace of God, as every other man who ever has or ever will inherit the kingdom of heaven. Forgive my foolish question, brethren. I was only concerned for the souls of some in my family, whom I hold dear.

Blessed be God for Jesus Christ! (Rom. 5:1, 8:1; Eph. 2:1-9, 4:32; 1 John 2:1-2)
Click to expand...
Yes and how people interpret texts like these:

Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.

One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
 
Same answer to those who break the 9th commandment, or any of the other commandments for that matter. I break many if not all of them daily, yet by the grace of God I’m saved.
 
No. Your question is too sweeping and that's why you're getting so much pushback.

That being said, it seems that in many cases a firm rejection of the biblical doctrine of the Sabbath is not an intellectual problem, but a relational one. The desire to spend a day with God does not come naturally.
 
The people you should be concerned for, are those who have an understanding of what God requires of them, and despise his precepts.

There is a difference between a wrong understanding, and clear disdain.
 
Recipient of Grace said:
I was only concerned for the souls of some in my family, whom I hold dear.
Click to expand...
Oh I'm so sorry if I hurt you in any way. I didn't mind your question at all. I didn't even necessarily think that it was you asking the question but more of a question in the generic sense. I'm not sure what you said that I might fight you on but I didn't see anything. You know, with Romans 8:28 saying all things work together for good to those that love the Lord, Etc, that includes sin. All true Christians hate sin, and in their heart of hearts, their new center of being which is nothing less than the seed of Christ. There's a battle going on every day through the rest of our life with seldom a moment's break accepting the arms of our lovely savior. There's a song I think it's called drop drop slow tears. The last line is a prayer. I can't help but we can give it as I try to tell it to you. Do not let sin be seen in me but through wet eyes. I am sure I have never come across that last line without my eyes filling with tears.

But even though I said that, I still know that our sin abounds to the greater glory of the God who saves sinners. For whose sin is worse? Those of ungodly unbelievers? Or the sins that we commit?

The answer is easy. The Saints sin are far more aggravated than the sins of unbelievers. We send against knowledge, Grace, promises to the contrary, we violate the scriptures, we ignore what was preached to us from the pulpit.

But he giveth more grace.
But after all that I'm still interested in finding out what I might disagree with you on what you said. So I'm going to go back and reread it and if I get any brainstorms I'll let you know. Goodbye for now dear brother.
EW ( I got the idea from the double uppercase initials from @MW :)
 
Ed Walsh said:
But after all that I'm still interested in finding out what I might disagree with you on what you said.
Click to expand...
I said that I am the chief of sinners, and you said in a fairly recent thread,

Ed Walsh said:
I'm sure we both think we are the chief of sinners. We might both say to each other, "But, you see, I am the lowest of the low." I would be up for a challenge or dual to prove I'm the worst sinner–not you.
Click to expand...
I was alluding to your statement in that post. :)
 
Recipient of Grace said:
Obstinately and willingly breaking any one of the other commandments in the decalogue would result in damnation, wouldn’t it? Which isn’t to say that salvation is by works, as it most definitely isn’t, and we know that absolutely no one apart from Christ could keep any of them, but if one has no desire to conform to the commandments of God, isn’t that evidence they aren’t regenerate? (1 John 2:3-6)
Click to expand...
There's a distinction here that's important to make.

1. Obstinately and willingly breaking any of the commandments of God.
2. Having no desire to conform to the commandments of God.

#2 is a very good indicator of a rebellious and possibly unregenerate heart.

I plan to write more about this in the near future, because I think about it a lot as I enter my second decade of regenerated life. No Christian with any serious spiritual experience, maturity, and knowledge behind them can possibly avoid #1. The thing is that if you know your Bible and you know your own heart, you know when you sin. In my case, I often know ahead of time, which is especially galling!

This is where we truly come to grips with the weakness of our own human flesh and with what Paul has written in Romans 7. My pastor said this past week that anyone who believed Romans 7:13-25 to be about the unregenerate was crazy. Strong language, of course, but how can one disagree after coming to know the truth of this passage by experience? When I am harsh and impatient with my daughters, is it because I don't know that this behaviour could reap a bitter harvest when they're older? Am I really ignorant that it's a poor return of the patience our dear Lord has shown with me? How about when I speak words of unkindness to my wife, or speak less than honorably of coworkers behind their back? Do I not know? Have I not heard?

With the passage of time, more and more I face the forces of inertia, weariness, and just plain thoughtlessness, all of which tilt the balance in favor of sin. The desire is there, but the weakness of the flesh is so very very real. Rather than asking if obstinacy damns one, Zachary, you should be asking - if a Christian who has been saved for any length of time sins out of ignorance, what's wrong with them that they don't yet know the will of God in their life? For the seasoned believer, nearly every sin is wilful and obstinate, and thanks be to the grace of God that he not only forgives those sins but strengthens us for yet another round of spiritual struggle the next day, promising that he will complete what he has begun.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top