Logan
Puritan Board Graduate
What clear and simple rules are you referring to that necessitate midnight to midnight---and not sundown to sundown or 11pm to 11pm? I'm not aware of any rule at all, let alone clear and simple ones.
Is the Lord’s Day considered a primary doctrinal issue?
- Thread starter cameronpickett
- Start date
- Status
What clear and simple rules are you referring to that necessitate midnight to midnight---and not sundown to sundown or 11pm to 11pm? I'm not aware of any rule at all, let alone clear and simple ones.
To clarify, are you saying that, since the time the Lord's Day begins or ends has to be clearly marked, and our society marks other days at midnight, the Lord's Day shoukd be meassured by that standard?
I can see the logic, but wouldn't a natural day be better defined by the sleeping that goes on at night? Usually if someone stays up till 00:30 on wednesday evening, he dosen't talk about that last half hour as "thursday night". Is it really allright to stay up late on the Lord's Day not for prayer, but so you can watch youtube videos on 00:01 on "monday"?
C4MERON
Puritan Board Freshman
From my own following of things, post #47 probably addresses this most closely.
EmilyF
Puritan Board Freshman
Although there are some differences on opinion regarding Sabbath timings, some others in this discussion have been trying to say that it is too strict to leave a job because of Sabbath work. This is if we are regarding the Sabbath day as any other day in our society. The rules are clear and simple, "one day in seven" and "keep it holy" -- and the "exceptions" brought out in this conversation have not been at all within the rules. Whether or not we regard the Sabbath as midnight to midnight or evening to evening is currently not part of the discussion, but whether it is breaking the Sabbath when (somehow) you are in an area affected by time zone changes, which could make you break the Sabbath, and whether or not working 1 hour on a "Sunday" is breaking the Sabbath.
This is a good way of putting it.
alexandermsmith
Puritan Board Junior
I have already quoted relevant Scripture which sets out this rule. I shall do so again:
Exodus 16:23-26: And he said unto them, This is that which the Lord hath said, To morrow [i.e. not this night] is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the Lord: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning. And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein. And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the Lord: to day ye shall not find it in the field. Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.
Nehemiah 13:19: And it came to pass, that when the gates of Jerusalem began to be dark before the sabbath [the jewish evening to evening sabbath begins at sunset], I commanded that the gates should be shut, and charged that they should not be opened till after the sabbath.
John 20:19: Then the same day [that Christ rose] at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Acts 20:7: And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
These portions of Scripture clearly inform us that the Sabbath did not begin in the evening, otherwise they would not have spoken of the Sabbath as being tomorrow but this evening or tonight. Scripture does not teach an evening to evening (or, for that matter, a morning to morning) Sabbath. I have already explained the distinction between the ceremonial sabbath which did begin in the evening ("your sabbath" God called it) and the weekly Sabbath ("a Sabbath unto the LORD"). We all know when a day ends and to claim there is confusion is disengenuous.
Last edited:
alexandermsmith
Puritan Board Junior
Yes: the Sabbath should be marked the way we mark every other day of the week. The Sabbath is one day in seven: it is not a longer or shorter day, it is not a magic day which has its own time zone or exists in a parallel timeframe. It is one natural day out of seven natural days.
As to the rest of what you say here I really have no idea what you're talking about. If someone stays up until 00.30am on Thursday he has stayed up until the early hours of Thursday morning. Wednesday evening does not have a 00.30 because we are now into Thursday, which any clock or your mobile phone will tell you. At 00.30 tomorrow will your phone show Thursday 29th February or Friday 1st March?
And I spoke at length about not treating the Sabbath as a light switch where as soon as it turns 00.01 on Monday morning one should return to one's worldly activities. I said (in post 47) "However, that doesn't mean we should not prepare for the Sabbath before midnight, or the moment midnight comes on Monday morning then we just forget about the Sabbath. We should ease our way into and out of the Sabbath in order to get the most benefit from it." The reason we need to have a strict definition of the Sabbath is for certain situations where that timeframe informs our actions, but for the most part we should already be preparing for the Sabbath before midnight.
EmilyF
Puritan Board Freshman
Alexander has done a good job of arguing the point I would also advocate for, but let me reply to some specific points/points aimed at me.
From what I recall, what I said is that to-the-minute Sabbath keeping is a big moment of the L-word when you are staying up on the Sabbath just to jump on worldly things on Monday at midnight (an example another has also given more recently in the conversation). I do not think that to-the-minute sabbath-keeping is evil from the on-the-safe-side position, unless you are telling others that they are breaking the Sabbath if they work until 11:59 (although this wouldn't be wise, as you would need more time to clear your mind of worldly things to prevent sabbath-breaking thoughts later on).
Working a job that requires Lord's Day hours is nowhere in the Confession as far as I'm aware. Moreover, it was Calvin in his embryonic Reformed studies who said that it could be any day, as long as everyone agreed on it. But none of the Westminster divines (nor any other confession's divines, as far as I'm aware, for that matter) thought it OK to have any day holy as long as it's a full day. Absolutely not. In a more sabbath-keeping society, there would have been even fewer exceptions/allowances. Why would they (Boston, Turretin, etc.) write about how the day moved to the first day of the week if it didn't matter what day it was? I suppose if you are one of the people who takes the confessions for their words and not for the full meanings and viewed by their writers, it would be understandable, but that's what the Free Church (when the FP side was thinking about leaving) did -- and they used the second question of the Shorter Catechism to say that the Word of God is only contained, not is in whole, the Holy Scriptures, therefore they can ordain people who do not believe the bible is inerrant, inspired, or infallible, completely disregarding the intentions of the divines (thankfully, most Free Church ministers nowadays are not Higher Critics. Thanks be to God).
It is a matter to discuss with elders and the minister, as we don't know the details. But as a general situation, using mere common sense, he has done the right thing, though the cost was high. If there was an opportunity to keep the job but change shifts, I believe if he were rational he would have taken it. It doesn't matter if it was a good job. This man clearly does not favour his earthly riches! If he is a first responder, then that shouldn't be part of the conversation, for those are works of necessity and mercy -- saving lives. In our church, nurses and emergency workers are without a doubt allowed to work on the Sabbath. Personally, I don't think people should go out of their way to work jobs that require them to miss church and break the Sabbath unless they think it is their vocation or they are very talented at it, or their area really needs it (again, like the missionary situation, but not ecclesiastical), because these people really miss out on a key part of the week, and have to make the most of it the hours they get off. But these people are absolutely required in our society and I am thankful for them. This is not Sabbath-breaking, as Jesus makes it clear that Sabbath work that saves lives is acceptable.
I do care about "to-the-minute" differences in time zones (or anywhere), but it should not be seen as an excuse to keep pushing it. Moreover, I am trying to say that it shows a mistake or desperate time as opposed to someone taking their sweet time wasting Sabbath hours on worldly things. I am trying to come off as not as harsh, and know that God will be softer on those who accidentally run over a minute or so as opposed to those who outright work on the Sabbath. Please show me where you think I implied that I did not care at all about "to-the-minute" sabbath-keeping, and I will clarify or concede depending.
From what I recall, what I said is that to-the-minute Sabbath keeping is a big moment of the L-word when you are staying up on the Sabbath just to jump on worldly things on Monday at midnight (an example another has also given more recently in the conversation). I do not think that to-the-minute sabbath-keeping is evil from the on-the-safe-side position, unless you are telling others that they are breaking the Sabbath if they work until 11:59 (although this wouldn't be wise, as you would need more time to clear your mind of worldly things to prevent sabbath-breaking thoughts later on).
I don't know his intentions, but the argument was rather rare and to me it seemed like an attempt to show an example of when my argument would fall flat, and my argument only falters (and I have given suggestions for a person in such a situation) in such a strange situation.
So the person who argues it IS being subversive. The argument IS subversive, but Christians have found an apt way to respond to it, and, indeed, providentially, it provides a way for a good response and more gospel witness. One cannot say that saying "what about rape?" is not an example of giving an extremely rare example and making it seem more frequent than it is, only to say that the other person's advice/solutions do not function (even though they only do not fully function in rare occasions, supposedly).
I don't think someone who slept from 00:15-07:00 thinks of the last 15 minutes he was awake as part of today. That is not how people think about days. I can see making midnight the defining moment if someone is not sleeping at all at that night, but a natural day is not necessarily identical with beurocratic clocks. Usually people think of a day as being from the time they wake up until they fall asleep.
Or, at the very least, it isn't how I intutively think about days
No Other Name
Puritan Board Sophomore
Yes indeed.
Nah. Since the argument does not - in fact - subvert the position itself objectively then it follows that the argument itself is not subversive. Their intended subversion - in fact - clarifies the anti-abortion position even further in light of both natural law and Biblical precepts.
Me neither. And - to my memory - discussions regarding necessary jobs that require necessary hours on the Lord's Day are matters of conscience between the employee and his local church leaders. Maybe there is one who cannot be a first responder due to their personal convictions regarding the Lord's Day, and maybe there is another who became a first responder before they were saved. If there were a church of a high percentage of Lord's Day workers, the leadership may get creative in ways of working around and still giving space for all members to observe corporate worship and rest for one day in seven.
Your quotations of Boston and Turretin are fine and - of course - are normative. My point was Ben's offered scenario of this guy who has to go to work on Monday at 2 am. We don't know why or what is going on or if church leadership works with his individual Sabbath-keeping - certaily not enough to say with any authority:
Ben was cautioning against legalism as to the times , and I was adding to Ben's comment that if this situation interferes with a service, there is a possibility for this guy to meet with church leadership about what is going on: his job (first responder or something similar), the hours, the Sabbath and what can/cannot happen from there to both assure his faithfulness to God's commands and his faithful commitment to his employer.
Phew, sounds rough. Brutal. Thankfully, that situation is not the case with any of us in this thread as I can see.
EmilyF
Puritan Board Freshman
People don't think of it as a different day because ordinarily people are supposed to/built to sleep over the change in days. When I do this, my friends remind me that it's actually the next day, and that's because it is. It doesn't matter how you feel about it when you don't sleep. If you stay awake for 48 hours (God forbid), is it still the same day for both days?
The great theologian John Murray, who ended up as a professor at Westminster Seminary a year after it started, desired to be a pastor. His presbytery refused to ordain him because he gave communion to people who took the trolley to church on Sunday morning. There are allegedly Presbyterian churches where John Calvin would not be accepted as a member.
The sabbath has to be at least secondary. It cannot possibly be primary given the historical record.
The sabbath has to be at least secondary. It cannot possibly be primary given the historical record.
That the change is at night when people are sleeping I agree, but is it somehow magically 00:00:00 for all people?
EmilyF
Puritan Board Freshman
John Murray had a couple of failings, but not too serious, and I'm sure he would be welcome amomg the best of us. However, I agree with his presbytery, as his actions imply that he sees no fault with those who cause others to work on the Sabbath (if I'm understanding correctly) to get to church, and them being unrepentant. If this is a view the elders and ministers had in mind, surely it had to be taught in the church, which leaves no excuse for people to not know about it.
Calvin was like Luther in many ways, but a bit further on -- he was one of the first people to break away from papism, so surely he still had a ways to go. I'm sure with the resources we have today, he would have been sitting with his brothers the puritans and with the presbyterians (Knox was his friend, remember! quite a strict man in everyone else's eyes).
Not at all -- I am in full agreement with Alexander and have already stated multiple times that the Sabbath is magic in no way.
Oxford Languages tells me that subversion is "undermine the power and authority" of something, and that to be subversive is "seeking or intended to subvert an established system..." (emphasis mine). Thus, it is completely about the intentions. But I agree with you that it providentially shines a light on the truth by what response it triggers in the Christian.
I didn't mean that it isn't mentioned by topic, I meant that there is no talk of sabbath jobs being allowed, because the idea of that would have horrified any one of the divines, and the rest of the documents seem to make this topic self-explanatory. Apart from maybe what you do on a Saturday, none of this is down to "conscience", nor is it "between the employee and his local church leaders". Such discussions of "conscience" in such a liberal manner are only recent and kind of frustrate me as I have no clue where they are from. When is God's Word a "conscience issue"?
Wasn't it Sabbath at 11pm, or have I mixed up scenarios? At any rate, this absolutely does matter, and is not a conscience issue. It is between him and his elders, but Ben chose to share the situation, and so I can judge it not on judging his person (in case Ben left out/didn't know some of the details), but in saying what, as a rule, should be done in such a situation. I was only saying that Ben is wrong in using this example as a way to say we are wrong and calling this man's decisions "too strict". If we are using your definition, I suppose he is also guilty of making assumptions and judgements where it should be left "between him and his elders".
Ben is wrong about legalism being not working for an hour on the Sabbath, no matter the cost. For people talking about "conscience", you don't seem to have any sensitivity for this man's conscience.
Yes, it is certainly nowhere near that bad here (thanks be to God again!), but I am cautioning against saying, "The confessions say/don't say this, therefore we can interpret them as loosely as we want". We must interpret them how they were intended. To be Puritan as the Board is named, we must look at the lives and ministries of the confessions' writers, that we may understand what they meant. I can guarantee you 0 known Westminster Divines would allow Sabbath work unless it were to do with emergency responders.
Last edited:
So would you agree that if someone sleeps at 00:15-7:00 on the Lord's Day/monday, the Lord's Day ends to him when he goes to sleep at 00:15, and not when his phone says "monday" at 00:00?
/Moderating/ We're three pages in and repeating the misunderstanding of the thread title. As has already been discussed, the thread title needs clarification; as the fourth commandment, it is a primary moral issue; as a salvation issue it may be secondary, depending on the exact question not in general. I'm reminded the presbytery of Baltimore of the PCUSA mid 19th century declared that a church that rejects the Christian Sabbath is apostate. So it really depends on what specific question is being considered w.r.t. the fourth commandment. /Moderating/
I think Calvin would be considered a strict puritan sabbatarian by most Presbyterians today (read his sermons on the fourth commandment), at least if they understood his practice/teaching and not just what he wrote in the Institutes. He's as misunderstood about the Sabbath as he his on the pretended holy days he and Presbyterianism generally rejected.
I think Calvin would be considered a strict puritan sabbatarian by most Presbyterians today (read his sermons on the fourth commandment), at least if they understood his practice/teaching and not just what he wrote in the Institutes. He's as misunderstood about the Sabbath as he his on the pretended holy days he and Presbyterianism generally rejected.
EmilyF
Puritan Board Freshman
Thanks, Chris. I think I am one of the people who misunderstands him on this. It could be due to the translation I'm reading. I remember a friend from the FCC explaining to me how he is actually strict on it, but I seem to have forgotten it! I shall read the sermons if and when I can.
I think the conversation we have had is of some level of importance, though it could look like a petty debate. We don't want people to misunderstand the Sabbath. I suppose it is somewhat related to the topic of the Sabbath's importance, as we have clearly seen that people on here agree that the Sabbath exists, but disagree on almost everything else. I'm sure the moderators are sick of FP contra mundum threads, but here we are! :,)
In light of Chris' message, I think we should wait for OP to clarify before proceeding. I have tried a couple of times to fish for a further explanation, but of no avail thus far.
You may find the below of interest
https://www.cpjournal.com/articles-2/articles/ (see Lauer's John Calvin, the Nascent Sabbatarian: A Reconsideration of Calvin’s View of Two Key Sabbath-Issues and my article on the Calvin bowling mythology).
Extract from Calvin's two sermons on the fourth commandment: https://purelypresbyterian.com/2017/01/16/the-lords-day-is-the-christian-sabbath-john-calvin/
C4MERON
Puritan Board Freshman
The Lord’s Day is the Christian Sabbath | John Calvin
John Calvin, Sermons on Deuteronomy, Second half of the 34th Sermon, pp. 228-230. 12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee. 13 Six days thou shalt labour, and…
purelypresbyterian.com
Do you know who is responsible for the advert content of this website? I just clicked on the link and about half-way down was met with a large stained-glass depiction of Christ crucified with a link to another article entitled ‘Is Everything Permissible Without God?’
No Other Name
Puritan Board Sophomore
The Lord’s Day is the Christian Sabbath | John Calvin
John Calvin, Sermons on Deuteronomy, Second half of the 34th Sermon, pp. 228-230. 12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee. 13 Six days thou shalt labour, and…
Do you know who is responsible for the advert content of this website? I just clicked on the link and about half-way down was met with a large stained-glass depiction of Christ crucified with a link to another article entitled ‘Is Everything Permissible Without God?’
I clicked on it and did not get that ad, but another with a road sign and lightning strikes saying "The end of an era: Prophecies indicate a change. Witness the end of an age of wickedness in the year 2034". Bizarre.
There are no ads at all when I pull it up; its it your browser? I'll ask the site owner meantime.The Lord’s Day is the Christian Sabbath | John Calvin
John Calvin, Sermons on Deuteronomy, Second half of the 34th Sermon, pp. 228-230. 12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee. 13 Six days thou shalt labour, and…
Do you know who is responsible for the advert content of this website? I just clicked on the link and about half-way down was met with a large stained-glass depiction of Christ crucified with a link to another article entitled ‘Is Everything Permissible Without God?’
C4MERON
Puritan Board Freshman
Thanks Chris. Not sure how to disable ads. It probably changes every time the webpage is opened.
Logan
Puritan Board Graduate
The Lord’s Day is the Christian Sabbath | John Calvin
John Calvin, Sermons on Deuteronomy, Second half of the 34th Sermon, pp. 228-230. 12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee. 13 Six days thou shalt labour, and…
Do you know who is responsible for the advert content of this website? I just clicked on the link and about half-way down was met with a large stained-glass depiction of Christ crucified with a link to another article entitled ‘Is Everything Permissible Without God?’
Being a Wordpress site, they might have little to no control over what ads get served. It's likely Google Adsense just going "this seems to be a religious site, I'll give the readers religious ads!"
Use an adblocker for your browser like uBlock Origin (search for it and add it as an extension).
I don't get an ad at the website either but I do get a notice from Duck Duck Go, which I use as my browser, that they blocked Facebook tracking content. Perhaps the ads come from thence.The Lord’s Day is the Christian Sabbath | John Calvin
John Calvin, Sermons on Deuteronomy, Second half of the 34th Sermon, pp. 228-230. 12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee. 13 Six days thou shalt labour, and…
Do you know who is responsible for the advert content of this website? I just clicked on the link and about half-way down was met with a large stained-glass depiction of Christ crucified with a link to another article entitled ‘Is Everything Permissible Without God?’
alexandermsmith
Puritan Board Junior
By this definition the Sabbath, indeed any day, becomes a totally arbitrary portion of time based on any one person's particular sleeping habits. Is that how you actually live your life? No of course not. We all know what a day is, when it starts, when it ends. Our clocks, phones and computers tell us this. Vast government bureaucracies operate according to this universal definition. No-one, not even you, thinks Thursday begins when you just happen to wake up. What if you stayed up all night from Wednesday does that mean Wednesday lasts until Friday and Thursday just disappears from that week? We really need to just cut out the nonsense now.
I don't know how many times I can say this. The strict definition of the Sabbath- of any day- is midnight to midnight. But an individual should not be in a hurry to end his Sabbath the moment the clock strikes 12. There is a devotional aspect to how one approaches the Sabbath which is distinct from the strict demarcation of when it begins and ends. The latter is only significant in the very rare cases where exact timings matter. Otherwise Christians shouldn't be watching the clock.
Phil D.
ὁ βαπτιστὴς
I think something that needs to be considered in terms of "original intent" is the relative lack of precise timekeeping in ancient cultures like Israel. For many, days were simply divided into approximate quarters. Sundials were the predominant instrument available for that purpose, and were obviously reliant on a reference source that somewhat varied throughout the year. I suppose it might be suggested there was an official timekeeper or something, but there is scant evidence for that. Even if larger communities did have that, what about those in rural areas?
If someone wants to juxtapose particular modern timekeeping methods and precision onto their own Sabbath keeping, I have no problem with that. But sincere and contemplative considerations will still result in different Christians arriving at different conclusions. Folks should seek advice from their local church leadership and then follow their conscious on any precise applications of how a "full" Sabbath day is to be measured. Given the questions that unavoidably attach to this issue, due to lack of specific commands, I believe the principle evinced in places like Rom. 14:4 and James 4:11 apply. Pax.
If someone wants to juxtapose particular modern timekeeping methods and precision onto their own Sabbath keeping, I have no problem with that. But sincere and contemplative considerations will still result in different Christians arriving at different conclusions. Folks should seek advice from their local church leadership and then follow their conscious on any precise applications of how a "full" Sabbath day is to be measured. Given the questions that unavoidably attach to this issue, due to lack of specific commands, I believe the principle evinced in places like Rom. 14:4 and James 4:11 apply. Pax.
I don't think me continuing to question you on this on this public thread would be helpfull anymore. I still have a hard time with saying it's midnight when the concept of having such an exact point of midnight is so new and most people who are up past midnight are definitely treating it as the very late evening of the previous day. Perhaps as a general guide I could see it. Or perhaps you are saying something a little diffrent than I am hearing.
Is this a view that you could share some resources on that I can read or watch?
Ryan&Amber2013
Puritan Board Senior
Why not when you wake up on Sunday, to when you go to bed? Just by breezing through the comments I sense a lot of (maybe unnecessary) rules. With the Sabbath I've noticed a danger for people at times to err in the ditch of the Pharisees. If one observes the Sabbath, it should be done with happiness and peace, not with a mindset of always thinking about what to do, not to do, when to do it, or not when. That frame of mind is binding. I've been there and sadly the day was a burden quite often.
Wake up on the Lord's Day, rest, worship, and spend good time with family.
Wake up on the Lord's Day, rest, worship, and spend good time with family.
Last edited:
Responding generally: Precision matters in that it is the Lord's Day; not the Lord's hour or half day or 3/4 day. The fringe/difficult cases shouldn't affect that on the Lord's Day we're on His time not ours. We live in a godless society and it is very common for some percentage of a congregation to be oppressed with jobs not of necessity or mercy that impose work schedules that some way impinge on God's holy day. The session should work with those folks and not feel like they have to get creative about "what time is it really?"
While I don't think one needs to hand-wring all the day, "should I do not do this," if we just go "don't worry be happy" how is that being careful to avoid sin like we should be careful with all the other commandments? No need to walk on eggshells but this is not rocket science. The WCF spells out succinctly what the day is for and we should avoid things including recreation, rest, or food that rather than fit us for and are in keeping with the purpose of the day, take us away from what the day is for, which is not simply rest but rest in order to worship. Food sufficient, rest sufficient, activity sufficient/necessary, but all to one purpose, that we are able to devote the time to the worship of God, as we've discussed many times in the various threads on this topic over the years.
While I don't think one needs to hand-wring all the day, "should I do not do this," if we just go "don't worry be happy" how is that being careful to avoid sin like we should be careful with all the other commandments? No need to walk on eggshells but this is not rocket science. The WCF spells out succinctly what the day is for and we should avoid things including recreation, rest, or food that rather than fit us for and are in keeping with the purpose of the day, take us away from what the day is for, which is not simply rest but rest in order to worship. Food sufficient, rest sufficient, activity sufficient/necessary, but all to one purpose, that we are able to devote the time to the worship of God, as we've discussed many times in the various threads on this topic over the years.
Northern Crofter
Puritan Board Junior
Yes, precision clocks are a feature of modern life (personal timepieces - and the modern system of time zones - really only became common with the rapid spread of railways) whereas natural sunrise and sunset have always been around and marked not only morning and evening but also the start and end of a workday.
But with modern artificial lighting making most work possible at any hour, it does create the need to mark time specifically to note when a day begins and ends. Dividing a day into 24 hours of 60 minutes is arbitrary (we could have 60 hours or 24 minutes, for example). Google "What is a day?" and it will give you the answer according to Creation (the time period it takes for a full rotation of the Earth) not our arbitrary division into 24 hours.
All that to say, it is easy, if you have a Mon-Fri 9-5 job, to just say the Sabbath begins when you wake up on the Lord's Day and ends when you go to sleep that evening (which would be following the midnight-to-midnight observance, albeit passivley/unconsciously), but that does not work in an electrified world that can expect work and recreation 24 hours a day. Christians need to be able to tell their employer, "I can't come in to work at 19.00 on the day you call Sunday because it is the Christian Sabbath," and their brethren need to be able to support them and say, "Yes, it is our body's belief that the Lord's Day is a 24-hour period starting and ending at midnight."
I just ran into this last week. My son had a playoff basketball game on Monday. The coach called for a practice on "Sunday" and specifically said they would have it in the evening (after dark - when people used to go to bed) "So that people who go to church can do that first." He was genuinely trying to be accommodating but I had to explain to him that my son wouldn't be there because we regard the whole day - all 24 hours - as set apart for rest and remembrance.
But with modern artificial lighting making most work possible at any hour, it does create the need to mark time specifically to note when a day begins and ends. Dividing a day into 24 hours of 60 minutes is arbitrary (we could have 60 hours or 24 minutes, for example). Google "What is a day?" and it will give you the answer according to Creation (the time period it takes for a full rotation of the Earth) not our arbitrary division into 24 hours.
All that to say, it is easy, if you have a Mon-Fri 9-5 job, to just say the Sabbath begins when you wake up on the Lord's Day and ends when you go to sleep that evening (which would be following the midnight-to-midnight observance, albeit passivley/unconsciously), but that does not work in an electrified world that can expect work and recreation 24 hours a day. Christians need to be able to tell their employer, "I can't come in to work at 19.00 on the day you call Sunday because it is the Christian Sabbath," and their brethren need to be able to support them and say, "Yes, it is our body's belief that the Lord's Day is a 24-hour period starting and ending at midnight."
I just ran into this last week. My son had a playoff basketball game on Monday. The coach called for a practice on "Sunday" and specifically said they would have it in the evening (after dark - when people used to go to bed) "So that people who go to church can do that first." He was genuinely trying to be accommodating but I had to explain to him that my son wouldn't be there because we regard the whole day - all 24 hours - as set apart for rest and remembrance.
alexandermsmith
Puritan Board Junior
Even if we were to grant that in times past there was a looser understanding of when a day began and ended, you still have to account for the fact there was i) a clear separation of time into seven days (which, unless you can provide evidence to the contrary, were considered equal in length) and ii) the Biblical writers clearly understood the difference between "this evening" and "tomorrow", hence what is said in the Scriptures I quoted above. Moses was able to say that the Sabbath was "tomorrow" without there being any seeming confusion on the part of his listeners as to what he meant.
And again, accepting for argument's sake this looser concept in those times, that doesn't apply to us because we do measure a day very precisely. In fact we measure time so precisely we even have leap years in order to accommodate the minutiae of time which cannot be contained in a standardised clock and calendar. The Fourth Commandment tells us to keep one whole day in seven holy. We know what a day is, when it begins and ends, which day of the week is the Christian Sabbath, therefore there is no confusion as to when the Sabbath begins and ends.
And as I have repeatedly shown we do have specific commands as to how to measure the Sabbath. So the use of generic texts, which do not speak to this issue particularly, do not take primacy here.
- Status