Tim,
I appreciate the questions. Admittedly, I am still working out some of my own conclusions. I will try to show my current full hand below:
Most of this “wine vs. grape juice” discussion on the Lord’s Supper has never really been on my mind as formerly having most of my church & church leadership experience in the SBC. In the SBC I mostly tried to defend against those who believed drinking any alcohol to be sinful. So most of my own historical experience with the pro-grape juice crowds have been groups who are teetotalers, at least publicly, that demonize alcohol. As expected, most of my Lord’s Supper experience has been with juice and crackers.
When I moved to the PCA (approx. 2.5 years ago), the discussion came up for me again as my Pastor shared with me his 5-10yr vision for our congregation (Lord Willing). One change was to have wine in the Lord’s Supper. After a year in membership I began to be prepped for officer training (specifically for the office of deacon). During this time, I became more convicted that we should only be using bread and wine. I hope that gives some more background.
I do not simply have the opinion that “wine in best”. To be more precise, I would say “wine is what is commanded and is what should be used”. Unless there is some economic shortage of grapes or wine, I do not see really any solid argumentation to use an alternative. Hopefully that clarifies my stance if I was unclear before. Unfermented grape juice does not check the box (for me) of scriptures definition of “fruit of the vine”. Further it does not check the box of the Westminster Standards and BCO that I subscribe to.
I am not sure that I would say that grape juice “can” be allowed. In most all cases I would say wine and bread are what is to be allowed. However, I can also acknowledge that some may have a serious allergic reaction. I do not believe I could insist on wine at the expense of a brother/sister
asphyxiating during a Lord’s Supper administration. Further, in reading scripture and the reformers, while it is highly sinful to take the supper in wrong manner, it can equally be sinful to neglect the supper for the wrong reasons (assuming you have the proper elements). Because of this I would likely be willing to find an alternate for someone that has a serious allergic reaction. This type of allergic reaction is not very common, but it can be extremely serious. However, I do not buy the “alcoholism” argumentation. That sin has likely existed as long as wine was known to man. Mankind has a knack for turning things intended for reflecting the beauty of our Lord into sinful disgusting idols (I fall into that group myself btw). Please know that I do not say that as someone cold or inexperienced with the affects of dealing with alcoholism in a personal way.
So technically, you might can say in one circumstance I would be “for” and alternative. However, that would still not constitute split tray, rather wine only with an accommodation based on a serious health condition.
@Ryan&Amber2013 &
@alexandermsmith , in another recent thread on the Lord’s Supper, have expressed that based on their own conscience and trying to be wise, they abstain from alcohol all of the time
EXCEPT at the Lord’s Table. I’ll add that I believe that to be very commendable on many levels. I condemn attitudes that call a brother’s (like
@earl40 &
@Scott Bushey ) abstaining from lack of wine to be something “horrific”. If they can be labeled horrific, what would one label those who skip the supper (with no medical condition) because they want grape juice (rhetorical)?
I think as I have changed in my understanding of the supper and what is commanded, I would/will likely abstain from the Lord’s Supper if there is no wine; especially, if we were not in some type of economic shortage. In other words, if a congregation was serving grape juice only and I knew there was not some type of massive stretch of wine shortage, I would likely abstain. Though I have a preference, I would not abstain over 1 table, 1 cup, sitting, standing, but when we start to mess with the 2 elements (bread and wine), that is when abstaining comes to mind (aside from sin and disputes).
I see no reason to catch “eye ball popping legalist looks” for my stance, especially while the brothers/sisters who choose to abstain because there is no “grape juice” are seen as perfectly acceptable. Tim, I know you do not think me to be a sinful legalist, but if we are honest the “wine-only grumps” in a grape-juice Lord’s Supper congregation often get unjustly labeled as the black pharisaic sheep.
I think that answers all your questions. It is hard to tell where we would land on practical matters without a specific example. In the example you provided from your own congregation I would not have raised division or disruptive arguments if I was just a member. However, if I were an elder, I would not have voted to allow for grape juice in that specific scenario considering you used wine-only prior, and further being the reason was unrelated to a serious medical allergy. I do not mean that as a critique or to be argumentative, rather I am simply giving you my honest and humble 2 cents. I would have even submitted as an elder if out-voted, but at least would have peacefully stated my objection.
@Andrew P.C. said it best here and his wording is often the cry of my inward self during these discussions:
“What Christ has instituted shall not be taken away by one’s own conscience.”
https://puritanboard.com/threads/th...e-who-abstained-from-wine.97847/#post-1196046
Paul says the following the context of 1 Corinthians 11 (I hope none dispute that wine was used in this congregation):
In v.23 Paul says: “F
or I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you…”(NKJV). I want to follow Paul’s example of trying to follow and deliver (teach) what was received on the night before the betrayal of Christ. I believe wine was no arbitrary selection and that it contains intended symbolism as does the bread (we likely agree to symbolism, just to a different extent).
Finally, I love you brother and I hope you can see I tried to take some time to sit down and ponder your questions in my above response. I mean every word cautiously and with much respect and thankfulness for you striving to serve the bride as a faithful elder. If one could fit my preferences into 1 category, I prefer how the Free Church of Scotland (continuing) and the RPCGA conduct the Lord’s Supper. Now I believe I have shown my full hand.
P.S. @Moderators, I am truly sorry if my thread has caused a lot of annoying “watching”. I would love to at least get a PM from a moderator on any advice and wisdom for my future post. If the “watching” of a more debate-style thread is normal, then let me know that I need not worry. I totally understand and agree with locking debate threads on the Lord’s Day. IF something about the thread (my post) was erroneous or unwise then I would love to be challenged to grow as a poster by the wisdom that has been granted to the moderators/admins. Hopefully, I have left no room for words to be put in my mouth. I will sign off this thread so long as that does not occur.