Exclusive psalmody in a hymn singing church

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chuckd said:
Off topic, but can PCA churches use the new Trinity Psalter Hymnal?
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Sure if they pay $15 (hardback), $70 (leather), or $250 (digital edition with PDFs). Contains 428 Hymns to go along with the Psalms.

Trinity Psalter from the PCA, on the other hand, is only $8.50 in paperback.
 
Andrew David Short said:
Please can I say what makes this serious is 1st table sins are worst than 2nd sins I am told i offend people by not offering what I think is sinful worship, this is as serious and worst than smashing car windows

All we are saying is give sin no chance
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You offend people by not offering sinful worship. Naturally. This is something you have to live with. You can't rule their hearts.

Remind yourself to look to your own sins before those of your brothers and sisters.

Do not be antagonistic, do not be argumentative. They will think you extreme, radical, even ridiculous. Show grace, and perhaps they will come to see that they are wrong about you. And pray for them!
 
Ryan&Amber2013 said:
I would participate in every part of the liturgy, as God has sovereinly placed these shepherds in your life to lead you. I would personally submit and wipe my hands clean of the issue and entrust myself to who God has placed over me. I know I'll probably get push back for this, but that's my opinion.
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I had thought about making a similar point, but more along the lines of who is culpable with RPW -- the elders who decide on the service or the laity that follows their lead? I have unexpectedly found myself in services with interpretive dance or drama, (PCA). I've been a part of congregations that withhold baptism and membership from infants. Should one close her eyes and flap her arms to drown out the wrongful worship?

Thanks for taking the bullets, brother :)
 
Andrew David Short said:
As I state repeatedly to them I am no better I am not looking down on everyone I deserve to burn in hell I know pride is evil
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I hope I don't sound as though I'm accusing you. I'm just speaking from personal experience. It is a struggle for me, often, when everyone around me has no qualms about repeating the same inane chorus half a dozen times. I have to tell myself, "I was there, too, not so long ago."
 
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Tom Hart said:
Do not make the mistake of surrendering liberty of conscience to the ordained authorities. See WCF, Chapter XX. Ministers are not ordained to be lords of men's consciences.

What you advocate is an "implicit faith". This is not merely unwise, it stands in opposition to the Scriptures (ie. 1 Thess. 5:21). I certainly hope this is not something that your church advocates.

Further, I would ask you to consider the propriety of your post here. A brother with strong convictions abour worship comes to say that he's in a bit of a difficult spot, and your advice to him is, in effect, "Brush aside those convictions, ignore the pangs of conscience, and sing the songs that you believe you shouldn't."

Please, show a little more charity and respect.
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Thank you for the advice. Good point.
 
NaphtaliPress said:
I don't know; see what Ed said.
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@chuckd

To expound a little more on the TPH - it was put together as a joint effort of the OPC and the URCNA. But the publisher is Great Commission Publications, which is a joint effort between the OPC and the PCA. So if a PCA church buys them, they are buying them from a company half owned by the denomination.
 
Reading threads like this makes me very glad that certain people are not called to be elders. I shudder to think of how they would bind a person’s conscience.
 
Ryan&Amber2013 said:
I'm sorry you feel this way. That was pretty hurtful. Just saying...
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This is a bit strange. You are telling men to sin against their conscience and to have an implicit faith. I am not sure if you have ever had to deal with a man that has a tender conscience and the kind of spiritual wreckage you will have to deal with in the aftermath.

An undershepherd ought to consider such things.
 
jwithnell said:
I had thought about making a similar point, but more along the lines of who is culpable with RPW -- the elders who decide on the service or the laity that follows their lead?
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  1. The EP position, as I understand it, considers it a sin to sing non-psalms. Would you advocate someone going against their conscience and thereby thinking they are sinning? It seems like the 1 Corinthians passage comes into play, that even if it is not a sin, they would be sinning because they think they are going against God.
  2. I thought we are not supposed to blindly follow what a leader says. That sounds popish, in that Catholics trust that the RC knows what they are doing. Paul commends the Bereans in Acts 17 for testing his teaching -- and he was an apostle!
  3. I think both are culpable. Elders would be culpable for those under their charge, but us non-elders are have a responsibility to ourselves and family. Maybe we have some responsibility for making elders aware of any concerns (aka keeping them in the loop of what a congregant is thinking, brings things to their attention that they were not aware of)? But see point 1 RE: conscience-bound.
 
Just a thought concerning the difficulty one personally feels when worship is not as it should be- think rather of our Lord, the reward given to him for his accomplishment of redemption being his rights concerning worship in the congregation! (set forth in many places in the Psalms)— particularly his right to lead the congregation in the yadah (the praise) and the zamar (the psalming) of God: “I will declare thy name to my brethren; in the midst of the congregation will I halal (hymn, humneo) thee. Ye that fear the LORD, halal him...” (Psalm 22:22, 23).

Christ’s own desires in all things should be looked to. We all suffer when the church falls short of his desire and will, but may the end result of our discomfort be a lifting of the eyes to his grand purpose and a spurring to prayer that the rights of our Head in his own church might be reestablished; that he would “turn us again” and bring times of reform and restoration for his own glory (and our good).

Remember Simeon and Anna in the temple. They longed and prayed right where they were until near the ends of their lives and God heard and answered their prayers. :)
 
@Andrew David Short

Look up Adam Kuehner on the matter too, pastor of Southfield RP. He's proved incredibly helpful.

I like to say, don't start with the exclusive portion (though I'm fully convinced these are the only authorized songs for worship). Start with the complete sufficiency of the Psalter for the New Covenant Christian, ie. that the Psalter is in no way lacking for a Christian in this time to worship God. The argument must be felt as well as tell't. In my pro-hymnody days this was my main argument against EP, and for many it's the greatest of all objections against EP, that the Psalms are too shadowy, couched in types, lack NC clarity needed for a Christian today, and you don't sing the name Jesus.

Or even better, start by singing them. You can get the 1650 online, it's mostly common meter tunes, so many classical hymn tunes can be adapted to sing a psalm to them. It won't take long to find the word of Christ dwelling richly in you.
 
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On a lighter note, one thing that might help to further our cause is to stop identifying as EP and to start identifying as IHA (Inspired Hymns Attracted). In which case, others might seek to avoid any #Davidphobic sentiments, treat those struggling with IHA with more empathy and understanding, and strive to create a safe space for IHA brothers and sisters. ;)
 
@Andrew David Short

In keeping with my last post, recommendations for singing about Christ: Psalms 2, 8, 16, 20-24, 45, 65, 72, 89, 10, 118, 130.

He is in all the Psalter, though these stand out as great mountain peaks on Christ. At least to me.

@Reformed Covenanter funny!

Yet I think the point is crucial. I personally prefer CSP--Complete Sufficiency of the Psalter.
 
Harley said:
@Andrew David Short

In keeping with my last post, recommendations for singing about Christ: Psalms 2, 8, 16, 20-24, 45, 65, 72, 89, 10, 118, 130.

He is in all the Psalter, though these stand out as great mountain peaks on Christ. At least to me.

@Reformed Covenanter funny!

Yet I think the point is crucial. I personally prefer CSP--Complete Sufficiency of the Psalter.
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As an engineer, when I see csp, I think corrugated steel pipe lol
 
If the hymns are expressing biblical truth, is it not possible to say them rather than sing them? Most EP proponents believe that the singing must be of Psalms, but I do not believe that saying or praying to God is subject to the same requirement. This way at least there can be a better measure of congregational unity in worship.
 
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