LawrenceU
Puritan Board Doctor
OT: Bill, kudos to you. That is one of the longest and best posts I've ever seen come from an iPhone!
Are Covenantal Baptists Reformed in the Historical Understanding of Reformed Theology
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OT: Bill, kudos to you. That is one of the longest and best posts I've ever seen come from an iPhone!
Sven
Puritan Board Sophomore
Brian Schwertley would accuse most Presbyterians and Reformed as NOT being Reformed since they do NOT hold to several points in their confessions. He would say that you are only a historic Lutheran lest you worship as the historic Reformed do, Rev. Winzer and other A EP on this board are the only Reformed according to Brian, I can see where he is coming from. So take heart all you Baptists, the majority of "Confessional" Presbyterian churches are not Reformed either!!!
Brian Schwertley calling Presbyterians "not Reformed" is not the same as Dr. Clark calling Baptists "not Reformed." Schwertley is a crank, whereas Dr. Clark is actually making a valid point. If there is a definition of Reformed, what is it? Dr. Clark has made the case that the Reformed Confessions define historically define "Reformed." Those who are unhappy with his definition have yet to prove why he is wrong. Those who want to be called "Reformed" but only on their own terms have yet to prove why their definition is better than how Dr. Clark defines it.
Grimmson
Puritan Board Sophomore
Sven, so from a Baptist perspective the Second London Baptist confession is not a reformed confession? And holding to the canons of Dort do not qualify us Baptists as well? And if we want to take a look at modern reformed baptists wouldnt you think that holding to the Regulatory principle of worship better satisfies our claimes as being reformed more then say some PCA and other Presbyterian churches, let alnoe some RCA or other quote reformed churches? Just want to see what people think.
Brian Schwertley would accuse most Presbyterians and Reformed as NOT being Reformed since they do NOT hold to several points in their confessions. He would say that you are only a historic Lutheran lest you worship as the historic Reformed do, Rev. Winzer and other A EP on this board are the only Reformed according to Brian, I can see where he is coming from. So take heart all you Baptists, the majority of "Confessional" Presbyterian churches are not Reformed either!!!
It should be noted that in all my discussions of EP I consciously endeavour to point out that I am only applying the regulative principle of worship to a specific act of corporate worship. The limiting principle of scripture alone prescribing what is offered to God in corporate worship is the point of reformed orthodoxy. Hence I do not consider those who maintain the regulative principle but differ with me on this point as being unreformed, but merely as maintaining a practice which I do not consider a consistent application of the regulative principle of worship. It is not a practice which touches on the essential marks of the church as it is not sacramental.
Sven
Puritan Board Sophomore
Grimmson, first of all, have you read Dr. Clark's book Recovering the Reformed Confession? The reason I ask this is because he deals with these questions in a much better way than I can, and this whole thread is really about Dr. Clark's assertions as to what Reformed means. The PCA, CRC, RCA and all these other Reformed Churches do not define what Reformed means. It is the Reformed Confessions that define what it means to be Reformed. Many of the Reformed Churches are losing their identity as Reformed. That is why Dr. Clark titled his book Recovering the Reformed Confession. If Churches like the RCA and CRC and even the PCA want to recover their identity as Reformed Churches they need to return to the theology, practice, and piety of the Reformed Confessions. It is important to note that Dr. Clark is not singling out Baptists in his book he's actually targeting Reformed Churches.
Concerning the LBCF, it Contains many aspects of Reformed insofar as it is in agreement with the WCF. However, the LBCF deviates from standard Reformed theology in its section on baptism and in the section on the covenant; furthermore, it was not agreed upon by a Reformed body, but a Baptist body.
BTW--I doubt there would be any upheaval by either Reformed or Baptist if someone wrote a book called Recovering the Baptist Confession.
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