Reformed Covenanter
Cancelled Commissioner
Sorry for my ignorance, but I know virtually nothing about characters in Dutch Reformed history, except that Arminius started a controversy which led to the Synod of Dort.
So was Hugo Grotius an Arminian?
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Yes, he was. He was imprisoned just after the Synod of Dordt for upholding Arminianism.
Yes, he was. He was imprisoned just after the Synod of Dordt for upholding Arminianism.
I see, did he recant his Arminianism in order to get out?
Yes, he was. He was imprisoned just after the Synod of Dordt for upholding Arminianism.
I see, did he recant his Arminianism in order to get out?
No, he was sentenced to life in prison but after serving two years he escaped with the help of his wife and maidservant to Paris.
Yes, he was. He was imprisoned just after the Synod of Dordt for upholding Arminianism.
I see, did he recant his Arminianism in order to get out?
No, he was sentenced to life in prison but after serving two years he escaped with the help of his wife and maidservant to Paris.
I see, did he recant his Arminianism in order to get out?
No, he was sentenced to life in prison but after serving two years he escaped with the help of his wife and maidservant to Paris.
While I don't approve of his arminianism, the escape story sounds awesome!
No, he was sentenced to life in prison but after serving two years he escaped with the help of his wife and maidservant to Paris.
While I don't approve of his arminianism, the escape story sounds awesome!
While a prisoner he was allowed to have his wife share his confinement. He was also allowed to have books in his cell. These were regularly delivered to him by friends in a trunk. That trunk was searched at first but eventually it became so routine that his jailers stopped searching the trunk. His wife came up with the idea to have Grotius put in the trunk and carried out under the unsuspecting eyes of the jailers. She coordinated plans with her maidservant and that's what happened. Grotius spent about 2 hours in that trunk before he was released by the maidservant and helped out of the country. His wife spent 2 more weeks in confinement because the authorities were furious with her but they never put her on trial. The famous Grotius prison escape is alluded to in Alexandre Dumas' The Black Tulip.
In his discourse with the Socinians defending Calvinism he developed what is called the "Governmental View of the Atonement." This is a perversion of Biblical doctrine based upon framing God's retributive Justice in humanistic terms - although, the foundation of it was his inability to counter the Socinian scriptural argument theologically. His view of the Atonement was championed by Wesley, and in one way or another it affects all of Arminianism and/or syncretic semi-pelaganism to this day.
In his discourse with the Socinians defending Calvinism he developed what is called the "Governmental View of the Atonement." This is a perversion of Biblical doctrine based upon framing God's retributive Justice in humanistic terms - although, the foundation of it was his inability to counter the Socinian scriptural argument theologically. His view of the Atonement was championed by Wesley, and in one way or another it affects all of Arminianism and/or syncretic semi-pelaganism to this day.
I know Wesley admired him, but could you kindly provide some type of reference supporting Wesley's take on the government theory. I think you may be mistaken here, unless: 1)you not claiming that's all Wesley affirmed about the atonement, and 2)you mean the early Wesley only (he changed his views on many things, as is well known).
In his discourse with the Socinians defending Calvinism he developed what is called the "Governmental View of the Atonement." This is a perversion of Biblical doctrine based upon framing God's retributive Justice in humanistic terms - although, the foundation of it was his inability to counter the Socinian scriptural argument theologically. His view of the Atonement was championed by Wesley, and in one way or another it affects all of Arminianism and/or syncretic semi-pelaganism to this day.
I know Wesley admired him, but could you kindly provide some type of reference supporting Wesley's take on the government theory. I think you may be mistaken here, unless: 1)you not claiming that's all Wesley affirmed about the atonement, and 2)you mean the early Wesley only (he changed his views on many things, as is well known).
For more on this I would refer you to Charles Hodge's work on the Governmental View, but right now I don't remember the name of his book, as I had borrowed it from my Pastor.
Yes, he was. He was imprisoned just after the Synod of Dordt for upholding Arminianism.
I see, did he recant his Arminianism in order to get out?
No, he was sentenced to life in prison but after serving two years he escaped with the help of his wife and maidservant to Paris.
I see, did he recant his Arminianism in order to get out?
No, he was sentenced to life in prison but after serving two years he escaped with the help of his wife and maidservant to Paris.
Evidently left of his own free will, heh?
Hello Ben,
It's been quite some time since I've studied these things, and then it wasn't exhaustive, so I may need correction here on how far Wesley accepted the doctrine. I don't know precisely right now where to begin research to back up my claim, but it is my understanding and it's generally confirmed when I talk with Weslyians. Whether it is a pure stand, I don't know, but its presuppositions and thinking is present. However, I think it is important to understand the moral or governmental theory of the atonement uses all of the same language that we do, so it uses the words "substitutionary atonement," but it does not mean penal satisfaction, it is rather a token punishment.
In essence, Grotius's view is a legal fiction whereby Christ's sacrifice is a demonstration of Justice, not Justice itself, hence Christ provides a means of the legal negation of God's Judgment upon sin, not the satisfaction of His judgment.
So, in this contemplation, a man is thinking he is standing condemned at law, not because he broke the law, but because the law cannot be broken. Christ's sacrifice, then, doesn't restore the sinner, it restores the law - in this paradigm free will is then asserted as the decisive soteriological factor.
I specifically remember that when I started studying these things out my Pastor had said that Grotius developed his view by deferring to civil government as the concept of Justice and then applied it to the Atonement. While this is true, I did not grasp what he meant by that, I suppose I thought it was just a framework of thought in which he framed the argument as an analogy, so when I read it and he used all the same terms - such as substitionary atonement, propiatian - then I didn't interpret it consistent with what he was saying. In other words, I read Reformed definitions into the meanings of those words when I studied out Grotius's teaching. You can't do that - that is not what he means.
If you've read Dabney's Christ our Penal Substitute and he begins by attacking the Socianians civil government argument, he does that because they are arguing that Scripture teaches a standard of Justice for civil government, but our soteriology is inconsistent with it. This was the argument that Grotius was responding to as well, in which he developed his concepts, but completely in terms of their presupposition altering the Calvinistic teaching.
For more on this I would refer you to Charles Hodge's work on the Governmental View, but right now I don't remember the name of his book, as I had borrowed it from my Pastor.
Sorry I can't be of more help in answer to your question.
Cordially,
Thomas
However many the similarities, there appears to be a significant underlying difference between Grotius and Wesley. While Wesley could fully appreciate the need to uphold the moral order of the universe, he did not assume that our obedience to God's law can ultimatley be grounded in fear, as Grotius' emphasis on deterrence could imply. Rather, he was convinced that our obedience must spring from our love of God and others, and that we can only have such love in response to our awareness of God's love for us.
But how do we come to be convinced of God's love? Through the Cross! That is, Wesley understood Christ's role in his sacrificial death to be much more than the Representitive of humanity; he was most fundamentally the Representitive of God. In particular, he was the Representative of God's pardoning and restoring love. It is in light of Christ that we sing
My God is reconciled,
His pard'ning voice I hear;
He owns me for his child,
I can no longer fear:
With confidence I now draw nigh,
And Father, Abba, Father, cry!
In other words, the central point that Wesley consistently wanted to make about the significance of Christ is that there remains no reason for us to fear that the guilt of our sins bars renewed relationship with God. God has mercifully transcended that barrier in Christ. Christ is the pardoning Initiative of God's responsible grace. If we will respond to this pardoning love of God and allow God's Presence deeper access to our lives, then we will be liberated from our captivity to sin and the process of our transformation into the fullness that God has always intended for us can begin. One is tempted to describe this as a Penalty Satisfaction explanation of the Atonement which has a Moral Influence purpose, and a Ransom effect!