Unity between Paedos and Credos revisited

[Semper Fidelis]

Seems like part of this was expressed by Dr. Godfrey in that last Modern Reformation:

http://www.modernreformation.org/wrg05dream.htm

Gosh, why can't the PCA, OPC, and the RPCNA collapse into a single Presbyterian denomination? I'm not saying the divide is simply a matter of being silly but even sharing enough of the doctrines of Grace can't get some people past the wine/grapejuice, psalms/hymns, or theonomy/redemptive historical barriers we erect to prevent true fellowship.

More to the point of Paedobaptists and Credobaptists: isn't that what the Westminster Confession of Faith allowed? I was a credobaptist for a while and didn't become a really convinced paedobaptist until a few years after I became Presbyterian. The Presbyterian Church allows the freedom for members to choose not to baptize their children. Most Churches will not allow those who believe that to teach however.

I honestly never felt "pressure" to be a paedobaptist while I wrestled through some of those covenant issues in a Presbyterian Church. I'm attending a Baptist Church now because I have little choice. I don't begrudge it and thank God I've found other Christians to worship with but there is a lot more tension being a paedobaptist in a credobaptist Church. Both my children are baptized now but I need to figure out how I'm going to get my third baptized because I know my current Church won't welcome my child into the Covenant (and being Southern Baptist understands it a different way). I don't despise the fellow believers for this compulsion but it is a huge tension for me.

This is a temporary situation for me but what if my kids grew up and now what would be the tension that they "really" get baptized. Because paedobaptists allow parents the liberty to baptize their infant children and credobaptists do not it seems the tension will always be more accute for the paedo who finds himself in a credo Church.

I'm not saying that to be prejorative or some sort of "we're better than you" because I respect the credos scruples on the matter even if I don't agree with their theology.

For my part, I love my Baptist brothers and extend the right hand of fellowship to them. I have no problem worshipping in their Church or allowing them worship in my own and we share communion at the table of the Lord.

 

[Herald]

This is a temporary situation for me but what if my kids grew up and now what would be the tension that they "really" get baptized. Because paedobaptists allow parents the liberty to baptize their infant children and credobaptists do not it seems the tension will always be more accute for the paedo who finds himself in a credo Church.

Rich, don't be so sure. The tension could be equal. A credo in a paedo church will surely feel the tension. I am sure that they will receive counsel from the elders that they are in error/sin by not having their children baptized. Nothing would irk me more than to be accused of being in sin when I am convinced (and biblically, I might add) that I am standing up for what is right. Add to that the whispering that could take place between other church members. My point? Equal tension for both credos and paedos.

As an avowed credo, I sympathize with your concern regarding your third child. Perhaps you can have your child baptized when you come back to the States on leave? If you are not a member of a paedo church in the States, I am sure that some of the fine paedos in here can point you in the right direction so you can line the baptism up when you get home.

The fact that you are fellowshipping with God's people, in spite of of your baptismal conviction, is encouraging to hear. I am sure you are as much a blessing to them as they are to you. The only thing I think you could have done better was....GO AIR FORCE!

 

[ChristopherPaul]

Originally posted by SemperFideles
Seems like part of this was expressed by Dr. Godfrey in that last Modern Reformation:

http://www.modernreformation.org/wrg05dream.htm

Rich, I like Dr. Godfrey's proposal and pray that we can be united one day (John 17:23, by our unity the world will know Christ is the Son of the living God).

However, in regards to Pastor Sean's topic, I believe each confessional denomination must work on unity within their own first, then tackle the over arching problem between the other confessional denominations.

The confessional Presbyterians need to be one before we should devote ourselves with uniting with confessional Baptists and vice versa.

It is like a church in turmoil trying to plant more churches. They should get what they have already in place corrected and straight before attempting to plant more of the like.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Originally posted by BaptistInCrisis
Rich, don't be so sure. The tension could be equal. A credo in a paedo church will surely feel the tension. I am sure that they will receive counsel from the elders that they are in error/sin by not having their children baptized. Nothing would irk me more than to be accused of being in sin when I am convinced (and biblically, I might add) that I am standing up for what is right. Add to that the whispering that could take place between other church members. My point? Equal tension for both credos and paedos.

I probably shouldn't have made the comparison because all situations differ. My only point is that in a credobaptist Church, I may not receive any "pressure" but I would not have the liberty to have my infant child baptized. Even with the greatest "pressure" in a paedobaptist Church nobody can force a parent to baptize their child. There's a substantive liberty difference.

As an avowed credo, I sympathize with your concern regarding your third child. Perhaps you can have your child baptized when you come back to the States on leave? If you are not a member of a paedo church in the States, I am sure that some of the fine paedos in here can point you in the right direction so you can line the baptism up when you get home.

That's our plan. We have a mother Church in Temecula, CA but I appreciate the concern.

The fact that you are fellowshipping with God's people, in spite of of your baptismal conviction, is encouraging to hear. I am sure you are as much a blessing to them as they are to you.

I have reflected greatly over the past few years about what Christian unity is without compromising my deeply held convictions regarding God's Word. Augustine and Pelagius argued in the same Church as did Arius and Athanasius until the heretics were declared but that took years. Why can't we have the same pain threshold? Honestly, it's not that hard to worship with other believers when they just get the Gospel right (even if they're still a bit confused).

The only thing I think you could have done better was....GO AIR FORCE!

NOW YOU HAVE GONE TOO FAR!!! Get behind me desk warrior!

My dad is a retired Air Force Colonel (Communications Officer like myself). We give each other a hard time. He tells me that, of the Services, the Air Force Officers have the easiest time transitioning to civilian life while Marines find it most difficult to transition.

"Yes that's true Dad," I reply, "but that's because Air Force Officers act like civilians to begin with."

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

The Free Presbyterian Church has Credo and Paedo existing side by side. Here are their articles of faith.

1. The Absolute Authority and Divine Verbal Inspiration of the Old and New Testaments as the Word of God.

2. There is but one living and true God, and in the Godhead, there are three Persons, equal in power and glory, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost

3. The Eternal Sonship, Virgin Birth, and Deity of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ

4. The personality of God the Holy Spirit, and the absolute necessity of His work in Regeneration and Sanctification, and His Infilling of the Indwelt Believer for power to live and witness for Christ

5. The Substitutionary Death of the Lord Jesus Christ and His Resurrection as the only way of Salvation through Faith

6. God has appointed besides the Word and Prayer the Sacraments of Baptism and the Lord's Supper

6a. Baptism -- The Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster, under Christ the Great King and Head of the Church, Realizing that bitter controversy raging around the mode and proper subjects of the ordinance of Christian baptism has divided the Body of Christ when that Body should have been united in Christian love and Holy Ghost power to stem the onslaughts and hell-inspired assaults of modernism, hereby affirms that each member of the Free Presbyterian Church shall have liberty to decide for himself which course to adopt on these controverted issues, each member giving due honor in love to the views held by differing brethren, but none espousing the error of baptismal regeneration.


6b. The Lord's Supper -- The Lord's Supper has been appointed by our Lord for Remembrance of Him in His work as Saviour. Its purpose to the child of God is for strengthening, and putting a visible difference between the redeemed and the unregenerate. This Sacrament will be observed once each month in every Free Presbyterian Congregation, or more frequently as each local congregation shall decide.

7. The visible and personal return of our Lord Jesus Christ.

8. These Articles, together with the Larger Catechism, , the Shorter Catechism, and The Westminster Confession of Faith, form the Subordinate Standards of the Free Presbyterian Church.

The Free Presbyterian Church