The Sabbath and Jewish Evangelism

[Sam Jer]

Around 2:38, the orthodox questioner asks why Messianic Jews do not keep the Sabbath. He does not get an answer. Because there is not a good answer - he found one of the inconsistancies of Israeli MJ's.
I am sure a Confessional Presbyterian would give an answer that, while not a proof for Christianity, removes or severely weakens this objection; and he would not get into the confused discourse on the greatest commandnent the guy in this video gave. He would also give better answers throughout.

Praise God that the gospel is preached to my nation, but the identity of the preacher matters. Come and help us.

 

[BabylonMike]

He does get an answer, but not the one he wanted. MJ's don't "keep the Sabbath" in the way that a Hassidic Jew will, but I would say that for every MJ I know, keeping the Biblical feasts including the Sabbath brings great joy. I would have to hear how a Confessional Presbyterian would answer, but I doubt that he would do a better job. In any case, I can certainly say an Amen to the prayer.

 

[alexandermsmith]

The answer from a confessional (Biblical) Christian would be: we do keep the Sabbath; the Sabbath has changed to the first day of the week and we keep it as Scripture (not the Talmud) commands. If the interviewer is still observing a Saturday Sabbath then that is just another example of what is wrong with Messianic Jews. One who follows Christ is a Christian and if he won't take that name upon himself- which was the name given to Christ's followers as a reproach, and we gladly take the reproach of the world- then there is something seriously wrong. The interviewee was actually hitting on an important inconsistency: this attempt by the MJ to straddle both worlds.

This video also includes one of the worst blasphemies of Judaism: their appropriation of the sufferings of Christ, Who suffered the true holocaust, upon themselves as a people.

 

[Jeri Tanner]

Around 2:38, the orthodox questioner asks why Messianic Jews do not keep the Sabbath. He does not get an answer. Because there is not a good answer - he found one of the inconsistancies of Israeli MJ's.
I am sure a Confessional Presbyterian would give an answer that, while not a proof for Christianity, removes or severely weakens this objection; and he would not get into the confused discourse on the greatest commandnent the guy in this video gave. He would also give better answers throughout.

Praise God that the gospel is preached to my nation, but the identity of the preacher matters. Come and help us.

Oh man. That’s powerful and sad. Indeed Lord, send laborers to the harvest in Israel.

 

[Sam Jer]

This video also includes one of the worst blasphemies of Judaism: their appropriation of the sufferings of Christ, Who suffered the true holocaust, upon themselves as a people.

While I agree with the sentiment, I would avoid referring to the sufferings of Christ as "the true holocaust". Better to avoid sounding like you are denying 1933-45. Too many Jews, religious or secular, are already falsely ascribing Nazism to Christianity.

 

[Susan777]

He does get an answer, but not the one he wanted. MJ's don't "keep the Sabbath" in the way that a Hassidic Jew will, but I would say that for every MJ I know, keeping the Biblical feasts including the Sabbath brings great joy. I would have to hear how a Confessional Presbyterian would answer, but I doubt that he would do a better job. In any case, I can certainly say an Amen to the prayer.

If a messianic Jew obtains great joy by celebrating the Jewish Holy days and feasts is it permissible for me, a gentile, to do the same? If one’s ethnicity is the deciding factor then has the wall of separation between Jew and gentile truly been torn down?

 

[Ulster Fry]

While I agree with the sentiment, I would avoid referring to the sufferings of Christ as "the true holocaust". Better to avoid sounding like you are denying 1933-45. Too many Jews, religious or secular, are already falsely ascribing Nazism to Christianity.

I think it's intentional. I'm fairly sure this poster is a big fan of one of the red pill heroes, Nick Fuentes.

 

[alexandermsmith]

I think it's intentional. I'm fairly sure this poster is a big fan of one of the red pill heroes, Nick Fuentes.

The word holocaust derives from the Greek word holokaustos, which means a whole burnt offering. Christ was the pre-eminent burnt offering. Are you saying what happened to the Jews in the 20th century supercedes what happened to Christ? That they are, in any way, comparable?

 

[Ulster Fry]

The word holocaust derives from the Greek word holokaustos, which means a whole burnt offering. Christ was the pre-eminent burnt offering. Are you saying what happened to the Jews in the 20th century supercedes what happened to Christ? That they are, in any way, comparable?

Nope, and I'm not interested in this silliness to be honest. I just thought I would make folks aware of what you're up to.

I find you Groypers as cringeworthy as the Leftists.

 

[alexandermsmith]

Nope, and I'm not interested in this silliness to be honest. I just thought I would make folks aware of what you're up to.

I find you Groypers as cringeworthy as the Leftists.

You know my motives do you? This reads like a Ninth Commandment violation to me.

 

[Laborer for the Lord]

If a messianic Jew obtains great joy by celebrating the Jewish Holy days and feasts is it permissible for me, a gentile, to do the same? If one’s ethnicity is the deciding factor then has the wall of separation between Jew and gentile truly been torn down?

In my experience, studying the feast days and ceremonies of the Mosaic covenant and learning how they point to the person and work of Christ is, in and of itself, an enriching endeavor. However, whenever I've felt the urge to actually attend an authentic passover seder or other Jewish holiday (uncommon though this desire is), I am reminded of Hebrews 10:1-18, which makes clear that Christians, having obtained the substance of all the Old Testament promises, no longer have need to resort to those means whereby God was pleased to bless His people in times past, except perhaps by way of reminder. Indeed, the epistle to the Hebrews itself is an exhortation to Jewish converts to remain steadfast in their profession of faith and the comparative simplicity of Christian worship, and not be lured back into the elaborate, ritualistic, performative system of Second Temple Judaism.

The only way in which I can see a present Christian observing such days as 'holy' would be in the context of evangelism, as Paul so regulated his conduct among the Jews as to not give the appearance of validating rumors that he and the other disciples blasphemed against Moses and the law (see Acts 6:8-14 and Acts 21:17-29 on this point). I'm certain that some missionaries who frequent this board can testify to the reality of having to 'bear with the weaknesses' of those long accustomed to a former manner of living, especially in pagan lands. Christ Himself condescended out of love for His people, so we as His ministers ought to act in like manner (Romans 15:1-3) and take to heart the words of the blessed apostle:

"For being free from all, I myself became servant to all, so that I might win the more. And to the Jews I became like a Jew, so that I might win the Jews. To those under the Law, as under the Law (myself not being under the Law) so that I might win those under the Law. To those outside the Law, as outside the Law (not being outside the law of God, but under the law of Christ) so that I might win those outside the Law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all these things to all, so that by all means I might save some.Now I do all things on account of the gospel, that I might become a fellow partaker with it." 1 Corinthians 9:19-23

 

[Ulster Fry]

You know my motives do you? This reads like a Ninth Commandment violation to me.

I have a fair idea, and it isn't difficult. Unlike probably a lot of people on this board, I used to watch a lot of Fuentes a few years ago and know the drill. If I wanted to, I could just ask you a few testing questions and make it obvious, but I'll just advise people to go and check out Fuentes' content for themselves and make their own minds up. I sincerely hope that you'll grow up and find better people to listen to.

 

[Sam Jer]

The word holocaust derives from the Greek word holokaustos, which means a whole burnt offering. Christ was the pre-eminent burnt offering. Are you saying what happened to the Jews in the 20th century supercedes what happened to Christ? That they are, in any way, comparable?

I don't think anyone hears holocaust and thinks about burnt offerings. They think about gas chambers.

I think it's intentional.

On what basis?

I find you Groypers as cringeworthy as the Leftists

What is a Groyper?

Are you saying what happened to the Jews in the 20th century supercedes what happened to Christ? That they are, in any way, comparable?

I think based on this any accusation of full-blown holocaust denial against mr. Smith will have to be discarded.
In case it isn't for someone (even a non-member), mr. Smith, do you agree that masses of Jews (and gypsies, and slavs, and ext) were unjustly murdered by Nazi Germany?

This reads like a Ninth Commandment violation to me.

The moment I saw you using "the true holocaust" I knew someone somewhere would read it that way.

 

[Jeri Tanner]

Closing the thread for review.

 

[Jeri Tanner]

The thread is re-opened; everyone please stick to the important topic and tenor of the OP (start a new thread if you want to discuss tangents!)

 

[Sam Jer]

Indeed, the epistle to the Hebrews itself is an exhortation to Jewish converts to remain steadfast in their profession of faith and the comparative simplicity of Christian worship, and not be lured back into the elaborate, ritualistic, performative system of Second Temple Judaism.

Let me add that modern Judaism's way of celebrating these feasts is scewed, and divorced from the temple they were part of.

 

[Laborer for the Lord]

*This comment was composed before @Jeri Tanner locked the thread for review. It is not intended to divert the thread away from the main topic, which is Jewish evangelism and the place of the Sabbath*

Brethren, I'm not a moderator (nor do I aspire to the office of one), but I think a sober word of admonition is needed here. People need to avoid escalating disagreements concerning choice of words into immediate impugning of others' motivations, especially when evidence is not forthcoming. This thread's topic is Jewish evangelism, so let's not turn it into a proxy for denouncing one's political beliefs. At the same, let us do well to not "preach Christ from envy", in such a way as to draw unnecessary negative attention. Our generation is one that increasingly responds to "shock and awe" tactics (just look at any news rundown on the NYT website), and many a Christian minister has employed such a strategy to get people to pay attention to their message (Doug Wilson and Mark Driscoll come to mind); in a word, controversy draws eyes and ears. But such purposeful provocativeness in gospel ministry, such as equating Christ's death with an event like the Holocaust or diminishing the horror of the latter as compared with the injustice surrounding the former, does nothing but feed our fleshly appetite for spectacle and strife, as Paul rightly points out (Philippians 1:15-17).

Let us then serve the LORD with all fear and trembling, with purity of heart and cleanness of conscience, and not be tempted by partisanship or worldly methods of evangelism. If we disagree with one another, let us not be disagreeable ourselves. In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, and in all things charity.

 

[Ulster Fry]

People need to avoid escalating disagreements concerning choice of words into immediate impugning of others' motivations, especially when evidence is not forthcoming.

You might want to take a look at some of the other threads over the past few days if you think this is a big nothingburger.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Closed.