Spanish-speaking TE's

[SemperEruditio]

Eva and I were talking yesterday about my call and how it seems to be evolving. My heart & desire to reach Latinos with the Gospel. So I was wondering how many here have need or would benefit from having a TE to start a Latino "church plant" within there church.

What I mean is essentially having two services going on at the same time. I know of a large PCA church that has a Korean service in one of the rooms while the English service is going on. I was thinking about the same thing but in Spanish.

One of the issues for my peeps is that services, at least in our area, are held in the afternoon. I know of English speaking churches that rent out schools and figured there could be multiple services going on. Everyone gets together for events and after service to fellowship. All the kids are together in Sunday School classes and perhaps the adults merge together for Sunday School, having a bilingual class.

Thoughts?


Josh, I know that someone, somewhere is having thoughts of some kind but I would like to read those thoughts about what I just posted...

 

[Scott1]

Having people who are bilingual and can speak Spanish is an asset.

Whether it is unifying to have services separated by language, particularly at the same time is another question.

Worship ought be as unified as possible (in every aspect) and make a good faith attempt to settle on biblical worship and unity in that for all.

Now, if there is a people group that cannot speak English at all, then a full-orbed approach would be:

1) sponsor an ESL type program at the church
2) have a foreign language service at a separate time (not same time as the plenary corporate worship)
3) try to obtain bilingual TE's and ordained men to do that (I'm bilingual enough I could do that)

There really can't be accountability, discipline or unity without the bilingual element, under one covenant community umbrella.

 

[SemperEruditio]

Having people who are bilingual and can speak Spanish is an asset.

Whether it is unifying to have services separated by language, particularly at the same time is another question.

Worship ought be as unified as possible (in every aspect) and make a good faith attempt to settle on biblical worship and unity in that for all.

Now, if there is a people group that cannot speak English at all, then a full-orbed approach would be:

1) sponsor an ESL type program at the church
2) have a foreign language service at a separate time (not same time as the plenary corporate worship)
3) try to obtain bilingual TE's and ordained men to do that (I'm bilingual enough I could do that)

There really can't be accountability, discipline or unity without the bilingual element, under one covenant community umbrella.

Why #2?

 

[Scott1]

It tends to create "competing services," that not only impacts unity, but stretches resources. For example, our Pastor preached later at a Chinese language service, but if that had gone on at the same time, one would have had to do without him.

 

[Willem van Oranje]

I know one pastor who does two services simultaneously by varying the placement of the sermon within the service. He leaves one service and goes to the other to preach, after his sermon. Just a thought.

 

[SemperEruditio]

It tends to create "competing services," that not only impacts unity, but stretches resources. For example, our Pastor preached later at a Chinese language service, but if that had gone on at the same time, one would have had to do without him.

I'm talking about TE's dedicated to each service. Explain how unity is fostered by having a church with two different services? What I'm talking about would coordinate resources. If a church rents out an elementary school there are plenty of rooms where another service could be held. I'm thinking that both preach out of the same book and perhaps even come together for the Lord's Table. While holding a bilingual service is too cumbersome and just disrupts the preached Word I'm thinking that a bilingual Lord's Table would not. Just thinking this through.

This whole "separate but equal" does not give any of those who are separate the perception or feeling they are equal.

 

[Scott1]

It tends to create "competing services," that not only impacts unity, but stretches resources. For example, our Pastor preached later at a Chinese language service, but if that had gone on at the same time, one would have had to do without him.

I'm talking about TE's dedicated to each service. Explain how unity is fostered by having a church with two different services? What I'm talking about would coordinate resources. If a church rents out an elementary school there are plenty of rooms where another service could be held. I'm thinking that both preach out of the same book and perhaps even come together for the Lord's Table. While holding a bilingual service is too cumbersome and just disrupts the preached Word I'm thinking that a bilingual Lord's Table would not. Just thinking this through.

This whole "separate but equal" does not give any of those who are separate the perception or feeling they are equal.

I'm not sure unity of a covenant community is fostered by two different kinds of services.

"Dedicating a TE" to a service at the same time means he is not able to sit under the teaching or participate in the corporate worship of a Senior Pastor. It also means a disconnect with the ministry, announcements, etc. that occur during plenary worship. The support personnel would tend to be divided, also.

 

[Scottish Lass]

It tends to create "competing services," that not only impacts unity, but stretches resources. For example, our Pastor preached later at a Chinese language service, but if that had gone on at the same time, one would have had to do without him.

I'm talking about TE's dedicated to each service. Explain how unity is fostered by having a church with two different services? What I'm talking about would coordinate resources. If a church rents out an elementary school there are plenty of rooms where another service could be held. I'm thinking that both preach out of the same book and perhaps even come together for the Lord's Table. While holding a bilingual service is too cumbersome and just disrupts the preached Word I'm thinking that a bilingual Lord's Table would not. Just thinking this through.

This whole "separate but equal" does not give any of those who are separate the perception or feeling they are equal.

I'm not sure unity of a covenant community is fostered by two different kinds of services.

"Dedicating a TE" to a service at the same time means he is not able to sit under the teaching or participate in the corporate worship of a Senior Pastor. It also means a disconnect with the ministry, announcements, etc. that occur during plenary worship. The support personnel would tend to be divided, also.

Maybe I'm confused (esp since I'm ARP, not PCA), but most TE's wouldn't sit under a senior pastor--they *are* the pastor, right? They would be participating by leading the Spanish worship service.

I like the blended idea for SS, etc. I know a Baptist congregation who shares fellowship time with the PCA plant that has an earlier service. Fellowship is after the early service, but before the later service, so both groups mingle.

 

[Willem van Oranje]

It tends to create "competing services," that not only impacts unity, but stretches resources. For example, our Pastor preached later at a Chinese language service, but if that had gone on at the same time, one would have had to do without him.

I'm talking about TE's dedicated to each service. Explain how unity is fostered by having a church with two different services? What I'm talking about would coordinate resources. If a church rents out an elementary school there are plenty of rooms where another service could be held. I'm thinking that both preach out of the same book and perhaps even come together for the Lord's Table. While holding a bilingual service is too cumbersome and just disrupts the preached Word I'm thinking that a bilingual Lord's Table would not. Just thinking this through.

This whole "separate but equal" does not give any of those who are separate the perception or feeling they are equal.

I'm not sure unity of a covenant community is fostered by two different kinds of services.

"Dedicating a TE" to a service at the same time means he is not able to sit under the teaching or participate in the corporate worship of a Senior Pastor. It also means a disconnect with the ministry, announcements, etc. that occur during plenary worship. The support personnel would tend to be divided, also.

This bilingual set-up would feel something like two congregations under one roof, but it seems to me that you could do much worse. A language-barrier is a legitimate reason to divide congregations, in my opinion. And the desire to occasionally do some things corporately is a great idea.

 

[westminken]

The North Texas Presbytery has a Hispanic mission church, Cristo Rey Church. The TE is Joshua Geiger. There are different services there. I believe they do Spanish only service, bilingual service, and English service. You might want to contact him. Just google Cristo Rey Church Dallas Tx and call him. It is a plant that meets independently of any other church, so no sharing of buildings, etc. It seems to work for them. Of course, they have a Session consisting of elders from the Presbytery. He is really doing mission work with the Hispanics in Dallas. A lot of the people are coming out Roman Catholicism and other forms of religion so it has been a slow go for him and his partners in ministry there.

 

[SemperEruditio]

It tends to create "competing services," that not only impacts unity, but stretches resources. For example, our Pastor preached later at a Chinese language service, but if that had gone on at the same time, one would have had to do without him.

I'm talking about TE's dedicated to each service. Explain how unity is fostered by having a church with two different services? What I'm talking about would coordinate resources. If a church rents out an elementary school there are plenty of rooms where another service could be held. I'm thinking that both preach out of the same book and perhaps even come together for the Lord's Table. While holding a bilingual service is too cumbersome and just disrupts the preached Word I'm thinking that a bilingual Lord's Table would not. Just thinking this through.

This whole "separate but equal" does not give any of those who are separate the perception or feeling they are equal.

I'm not sure unity of a covenant community is fostered by two different kinds of services.

"Dedicating a TE" to a service at the same time means he is not able to sit under the teaching or participate in the corporate worship of a Senior Pastor. It also means a disconnect with the ministry, announcements, etc. that occur during plenary worship. The support personnel would tend to be divided, also.

Aren't you supporting the disunity by having two different kind of services at two different times? What message does having empty space but never coming together give?

Is the idea for TE's to sit under the teaching of another? "Disconnect with the ministry?" Not sure what that means. Would not the ministry be taking place in the other room as well? As far as announcements that seems like the Spanish TE reading the announcements to his group would fulfill the same purpose.

 

[Scott1]

Maybe I'm confused (esp since I'm ARP, not PCA), but most TE's wouldn't sit under a senior pastor--they *are* the pastor, right? They would be participating by leading the Spanish worship service.

A teaching elder could be a senior pastor, associate pastor, assistant pastor, youth director, director of discipleship, or not have an additional title.

So during regular corporate worship, often all of them will be there, with their families, participating, and with all the interaction with covenant community that goes with that.

So, for example, the associate pastor, who is not preaching that day (because the senior pastor is) is able to sit under the teaching of another teaching elder even if he later, at another time, he participates in a foreign language service.

To completely remove someone from that, and all the support people (e.g. Lord's Supper), choirs, deacons and the corporate prayer, fellowship that occurs and try to run a parallel service would not seem to further covenant community or the unity it is based on.

It would seem better, though not a perfect choice, to have the teachers, deacons, choirs, support people all available to worship together, even if they participate in a foreign language service at a different time. But those must all be bilingual to have a sense of accountability and unity.

It's not merely a case of filling empty space and assigning a teaching elder, there's a lot more to it than that, or so it would seem.

---------- Post added at 04:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:02 PM ----------

Aren't you supporting the disunity by having two different kind of services at two different times? What message does having empty space but never coming together give?

The point is, I'm not sure this fosters the unity of the covenant community, church discipline, fellowship by having two different kinds of services (any time). But having two at the same time presents even more challenges to these attributes.

 

[py3ak]

To completely remove someone from that, and all the support people (e.g. Lord's Supper), choirs, deacons and the corporate prayer, fellowship that occurs and try to run a parallel service would not seem to further covenant community or the unity it is based on.

Surely that anything that tends to the minimization of people's exposure to choirs is for the best?

 

[Scottish Lass]

A teaching elder could be a senior pastor, associate pastor, assistant pastor, youth director, director of discipleship, or not have an additional title.

Okay, I didn't know that. I understand your view better now--thanks.

 

[Scott1]

Surely that anything that tends to the minimization of people's exposure to choirs is for the best?

(but we *do* like our choirs)

 

[Edward]

There are different services there.

I think it's a single bilingual service. It is also one of the least successful church plants in N.Tex. It's still a mission long after many later plants have particularized. It probably wouldn't be viable even as a mission without the Anglo component.

Cristo Rey Presbyterian Church

There are a couple of Spanish language congregations in S. TX down in the Valley.

 

[SemperEruditio]

There are different services there.

I think it's a single bilingual service. It is also one of the least successful church plants in N.Tex. It's still a mission long after many later plants have particularized. It probably wouldn't be viable even as a mission without the Anglo component.

Cristo Rey Presbyterian Church

There are a couple of Spanish language congregations in S. TX down in the Valley.

How are you measuring "success?" Is it how quickly a plant particularizes?

I contacted Tim McKeown at PCA-MNA and my idea is not new. It's in practice and growing among those congregations who do not want what I'm calling a "separate but equal" format.

Thanks for the feedback. Tim had some great information and ideas. It's great we have a system in place and don't have to reinvent the wheel nor are we out there all alone even when it feels like that.

 

[Edward]

How are you measuring "success?" Is it how quickly a plant particularizes?

That would be one, but not the only measure. According to 2000 numbers, there were more Mexicans than whites in Dallas. (And that doesn't count the OTMs.) At this point, I have to wonder if a monocultural approach might have been more successful in reaching that 400,000 plus group.

And I compare it to a conservative Episcopal congregation in an upper middle class suburb which started a separate, highly successful, Spanish language service as a complement to its Anglo service.

...my idea is not new. It's in practice and growing among those congregations who do not want what I'm calling a "separate but equal" format.

But how are those working out? Are they good stewardship?

 

[SemperEruditio]

How are you measuring "success?" Is it how quickly a plant particularizes?

That would be one, but not the only measure. According to 2000 numbers, there were more Mexicans than whites in Dallas. (And that doesn't count the OTMs.) At this point, I have to wonder if a monocultural approach might have been more successful in reaching that 400,000 plus group.

And I compare it to a conservative Episcopal congregation in an upper middle class suburb which started a separate, highly successful, Spanish language service as a complement to its Anglo service.

Interesting. The approach that we just send someone who looks like or can speak like the group in question has not worked in the US. Our culture is not a stagnant one and merely sending a church planter with some money has not worked. Latinos are not a monoculture. Mexicans in Texas are not the same as Cubans in Florida. There are difference even among the same group and the generation they belong to. Cubans had been diligent in having their generations learn Spanish and keep their culture because "Fidel no va durar mucho mas" (Fidel won't last much longer)

...my idea is not new. It's in practice and growing among those congregations who do not want what I'm calling a "separate but equal" format.

But how are those working out? Are they good stewardship?[/QUOTE]

They're growing. People are learning to love those who are not part of their socioeconomic nor ethnic group by serving God together right where they are. Why wouldn't these models be good stewardship?