SBTS changing their credit requirement for the MDiv

[SkylerGerald]

SBTS recently announced their simplified M.Div degree which consists of 84 credit hours. This includes 21 in each Biblical Studies, Theological Studies, and Practical Studies. Compare this to schools such as RTS and WTS which are at 106 and 111 respectively.

Do you think SBTS’ curriculum change is a good thing? Is this a helpful thing to simplify an MDiv?

 

[Polanus1561]

Coming from a different POV: I have come to believe that even a 100-120 credit MDiv is insufficient because one must continue learning post MDiv (be it by self-studying a good selection of books or a ThM). A lot of seminary courses do not go deep enough into subjects such as theology proper, Christology, and biblical theology to name a few. This is not a criticism but it is the nature of the limitations of X hour courses that can never compare to the amount of content books provide. So in the grand scheme of things: 80 or 100 hr courses is not the main issue. A hungry MDiv graduate who is able to motivate himself to read deeper is far more important.

my 2c.

 

[SkylerGerald]

Coming from a different POV: I have come to believe that even a 100-120 credit MDiv is insufficient because one must continue learning post MDiv (be it by self-studying a good selection of books or a ThM). A lot of seminary courses do not go deep enough into subjects such as theology proper, Christology, and biblical theology to name a few. This is not a criticism but it is the nature of the limitations of X hour courses that can never compare to the amount of content books provide. So in the grand scheme of things: 80 or 100 hr courses is not the main issue. A hungry MDiv graduate who is able to motivate himself to read deeper is far more important.

my 2c.

Well said. I personally think you’re spot on there. If you graduate from RTS’ 106-hour program and you just do it to do it, you won’t be set up for success like a hungry graduate (I like that term) of an 84-hour program.

 

[iainduguid]

Well, there's no Biblical number of hours for a seminary MDiv. I've taught in places in the majority world where people have very little education and are doing their best to pastor God's people. And of course historically, Baptists have in general placed less emphasis on education than Presbyterians, which was one of the reasons the Baptists were more successful in church planting in the frontier days than Presbyterians.

Having said that, there are no "fluff" courses in the WTS curriculum. We are committed to producing men who have a solid training in both Greek and Hebrew, are well grounded in the Scriptures and Reformed theology, and are equipped to teach, preach and counsel. Increasingly, students come in with lower levels of grounding in the Bible and theology, and so there is more ground to make up. Don't expect to see WTS shortening our MDiv program any time soon.

There is certainly a case for continuing study; personally I think it should be an ongoing requirement, but that's easier to do if you have a solid foundation from which to start and (let's be honest) many pastors are already overwhelmed with the challenges of pastoral ministry in an increasingly post-Christian context. And frankly, it's precisely the "hungry" students who are more likely to sign up for a 111 hour MDiv than for an 84 hour MDiv.

 

[Polanus1561]

Well said. I personally think you’re spot on there. If you graduate from RTS’ 106-hour program and you just do it to do it, you won’t be set up for success like a hungry graduate (I like that term) of an 84-hour program.

Glad you could understand my words. To put it another way: in seminary you read portions of systematic theologies (Calvin, Bavinck etc.) but again, whether you are a 80 or 100 credit MDiv, who will be the graduate who proceeds to digest Turretin?; who will be the one who continues to seek answers to questions that were only touched on in seminary? Who will be the one who continues to investigate the many Christological issues that a MDiv course could not possible cover all in detail? Who is the one who continues to refine his biblical languages?

 

[Polanus1561]

One must also consider the issue of debt (another whole big issue). I can see someone going ahead with a 80 credit MDiv than a 110 credit MDiv because he perceives not going to debt is more important than 30 more credits. And if SBC churches are fine with this change, then I guess all is well (?)

 

[SkylerGerald]

Well, there's no Biblical number of hours for a seminary MDiv. I've taught in places in the majority world where people have very little education and are doing their best to pastor God's people. And of course historically, Baptists have in general placed less emphasis on education than Presbyterians, which was one of the reasons the Baptists were more successful in church planting in the frontier days than Presbyterians.

Having said that, there are no "fluff" courses in the WTS curriculum. We are committed to producing men who have a solid training in both Greek and Hebrew, are well grounded in the Scriptures and Reformed theology, and are equipped to teach, preach and counsel. Increasingly, students come in with lower levels of grounding in the Bible and theology, and so there is more ground to make up. Don't expect to see WTS shortening our MDiv program any time soon.

There is certainly a case for continuing study; personally I think it should be an ongoing requirement, but that's easier to do if you have a solid foundation from which to start and (let's be honest) many pastors are already overwhelmed with the challenges of pastoral ministry in an increasingly post-Christian context. And frankly, it's precisely the "hungry" students who are more likely to sign up for a 111 hour MDiv than for an 84 hour MDiv.

Well said. It seems there’s a place for both programs as long as the credit reduction is done in a proper way. That is, not the way many liberal seminaries have gone where systematics courses are almost completely abolished in favor of various intersectionality-oriented practical courses. Obviously that is an extreme.

I share the same concern as @Polanus1561 where some guys cannot afford to get a 100-plus education. Though, to your point, if you’re hungry and are able to do it, go for the bigger program.

 

[SolaScriptura]

As as alumnus of SBTS I am saddened by this curricular change.

People are less prepared than ever in terms of academic background and in enculturated inability to appreciate or find value in anything that doesn’t immediately and on the face of it make sense to me as being valuable. Hence sanctification is so woeful. The absolute last thing we need is to accommodate this by lowering our standards. Ridiculous.