Sanctification: Monergistic or Synergistic?

[Gator_Baptist]

This is something that has been on mind a lot lately, and I wanted some guidance on the subject from other reformed folk.

I know that all reformed folk will agree that justification is monergistic. But what about Sanctification? I am starting to think that it is monergistic for a couple of reasons. I read this Q & A from another website, and found it to be very convincing. And it appears to me that Ezekiel 36:27 would also indicate that as well.

I wanted to put this idea out there and see if it would hold up to criticism, so let me know what you think.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

I believe it is both. Sometimes God needs to override us in our sanctification. Here are a few passages for both.

(Psa 23:3) He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

(Php 2:12) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

(Php 2:13) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

 

[Gator_Baptist]

What do think of this argument that Philippians 2:12, 13 actually supports monergistic sanctification and not synergistic sanctification?

Just so I'm clear -- I like John Hendryx. But, I don't find this a very compelling argument. In context, Paul is not saying that the saints at Philippi should work out their salvation in the absence of the God, Christ, or the Holy Spirit. Paul said that he was personally absent. The saints at Philippi were to continue in their work without Paul's immediate input. Being absent, Paul placed them in God's hand, who would cause them "both to will and to work for His good pleasure." Paul was not arguing for synergism. And, if it could somehow be proven that he was, then he was a very confused theologian, given all the statements above.

Also, notice how the verse is cited: "Phil. 2:12b,13." Why "12b"? Well, because 12a would reveal the true context, so it was conveniently discarded (as if partial thoughts can actually convey the original author's intentions). Here is what was actually written:

"Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Phil. 2:12-13)

Just as they had obeyed Paul's teaching, they were to continue in the gospel in his absence, knowing that it was God Himself working in them both to will and to work according to His good pleasure. Given the clarity and weight of the verses listed above (which do not exhaust the New Testament passages on the subject), this one verse, out-of-context and truncated, does not make the case for synergism with any real force. Philippians 2:12-13 can just as easily be used by the proponent of monergistic sanctification, since it is ultimately God who causes the willing and the working. To form dogmatic statements on the basis of one verse that does not even directly address sanctification as a topic seems a bit tenuous to me.

Link

 

[Peairtach]

The beginning of sanctification is monergistic, being regeneration and definitive sanctification.

Progressive sanctification is synergistic with the regenerated soul co-operating with the work of Christ by His Holy Spirit in the soul.

The end of sanctification is perfection at death, which is monergistic.

All the glory goes to God because we would never want to co-operate in progressive sanctification without being monergistically regenerated.

Progressive sanctification is definitely not some kind of "Let go and let God" situation.

 

[rbcbob]

The beginning of sanctification is monergistic, being regeneration and definitive sanctification.

Progressive sanctification is synergistic with the regenerated soul co-operating with the work of Christ by His Holy Spirit in the soul.

The end of sanctification is perfection at death, which is monergistic.

All the glory goes to God because we would never want to co-operate in progressive sanctification without being monergistically regenerated.

Progressive sanctification is definitely not some kind of "Let go and let God" situation.

 

[KMK]

If one does not like the term 'synergistic' in regards to sanctification, the word 'participation' might work. We participate in our sanctification in a way that we do not in our justification. I brought this up in a recent thread:

Even though God causes me to love righteousness that does not mean I do not actually and truly love righteousness.

Ursinus:

Man's conversion to God consists in a change of the corrupt mind and will into that which is good, produced by the Holy Ghost through preaching of the law and the gospel, which is followed by a sincere desire to produce the fruits of repentance, and a conformity of the life to all the commands of God. Commentary on the Heidelberg, pg. 469

 

[Don Kistler]

This is one of those "both/and" things. As Philippians points out, we work out what He is working in us, and we only work out *because* He is working in us. But it is important to remember that none of the commands in the Bible are given to God. Every one of them is given to us.

 

[EricP]

Under the rubric that it never hurts to mention Puritan authors on the Puritan Board, the more you read of them the more you feel and see their pastor's hearts in dealing with the battle against the world and the work every Christian has to put into his sanctification. Law's A Serious Call to a Devout and Holy Life, Brooks' Precious Remedies, Owens' Mortification of Sin etc all chime in well with the later likes of Ryle's Holiness--we are saved by the Father, under the accomplished work of our Savior, and we are assisted throughout our lives by His Spirit. He has given us the ability to respond to His call to fight for our sanctification to the death!

 

[TaylorOtwell]

Good question.

Question 75: What is sanctification? Answer: Sanctification is a work of God's grace, whereby they whom God has, before the foundation of the world, chosen to be holy, are in time, through the powerful operation of his Spirit applying the death and resurrection of Christ unto them, renewed in their whole man after the image of God; having the seeds of repentance unto life, and all other saving graces, put into their hearts, and those graces so stirred up, increased, and strengthened, as that they more and more die unto sin, and rise unto newness of life.

I'm struggling to see how it could be any less monergistic than justification. Though, perhaps I'm not understanding the nuances of the terms. For instance, if we say we co-operate through attending to the means of grace, is it not God who stirred up our hearts to attend to His means of growing us in spiritual life? Regarding justification, we willingly embrace Christ after our hearts have been regenerated by His sovereign grace; however, this does not cause us to call justification synergistic. In the same way, it seems that though we willingly participate in the means of grace, it is always God who stirs up our hearts to do so.

Is this not orthodox? I understand that sanctification is not a "let go and let God" situation; however, is not every growth in grace, at the root level, because God is working in our hearts?

*Edit* - It seems minds much stronger than my own differ with me... I'm willing to trust others judgment in divine things, but I'm still struggling with understanding how sanctification is not, at the root, monergistic. I checked Gill's Body of Divinity, and he seems to view sanctification in more monergistic terms, at least in its cause.

It must be remembered that while the subject is passive with respect to that Divine act of grace whereby he is regenerated, after he is regenerated he co-operates with the Holy Ghost in the work of sanctification. The Holy Ghost gives the grace, and prompts and directs in its exercise, and the soul exercises it. Thus, while sanctification is a grace, it is also a duty; and the soul is both bound and encouraged to use with diligence, in dependence upon the Holy Spirit, all the means for its spiritual renovation, and to form those habits of resisting evil and of right action in which sanctification so largely consists.

- A.A. Hodge

 

[jayce475]

Good question.

Question 75: What is sanctification? Answer: Sanctification is a work of God's grace, whereby they whom God has, before the foundation of the world, chosen to be holy, are in time, through the powerful operation of his Spirit applying the death and resurrection of Christ unto them, renewed in their whole man after the image of God; having the seeds of repentance unto life, and all other saving graces, put into their hearts, and those graces so stirred up, increased, and strengthened, as that they more and more die unto sin, and rise unto newness of life.

I'm struggling to see how it could be any less monergistic than justification. Though, perhaps I'm not understanding the nuances of the terms. For instance, if we say we co-operate through attending to the means of grace, is it not God who stirred up our hearts to attend to His means of growing us in spiritual life? Regarding justification, we willingly embrace Christ after our hearts have been regenerated by His sovereign grace; however, this does not cause us to call justification synergistic. In the same way, it seems that though we willingly participate in the means of grace, it is always God who stirs up our hearts to do so.

Is this not orthodox? I understand that sanctification is not a "let go and let God" situation; however, is not every growth in grace, at the root level, because God is working in our hearts?

*Edit* - It seems minds much stronger than my own differ with me... I'm willing to trust others judgment in divine things, but I'm still struggling with understanding how sanctification is not, at the root, monergistic.

It must be remembered that while the subject is passive with respect to that Divine act of grace whereby he is regenerated, after he is regenerated he co-operates with the Holy Ghost in the work of sanctification. The Holy Ghost gives the grace, and prompts and directs in its exercise, and the soul exercises it. Thus, while sanctification is a grace, it is also a duty; and the soul is both bound and encouraged to use with diligence, in dependence upon the Holy Spirit, all the means for its spiritual renovation, and to form those habits of resisting evil and of right action in which sanctification so largely consists.

- A.A. Hodge

Fundamentally, does a mature believer say that he had a role to play in his sanctification as it was he himself who participated with the Holy Spirit, or is it purely by the grace of God that he was willing to participate in the first place? Shouldn't human responsibility and God's sovereignty logically work in the same way for both regeneration and sanctification? I've heard of definitive and progressive sanctification before, and it seems to make a whole lot of sense, but I'm not fully convinced scripturally. Do we have scriptures to back up this distinction definitively? Then again, is there ultimately any practical purpose to understanding if sanctification is monergistic or synergistic, assuming mature believers exhibit humility and do not boast of how sanctified they are?

 

[student ad x]

Progressive sanctification is synergistic with the regenerated soul co-operating with the work of Christ by His Holy Spirit in the soul.

Is prayer the means of co-operation?

 

[yoyoceramic]

John Owen in Mortification of Sin

The first is, that the choicest believers, who are assuredly freed from the condemning power of sin, ought yet to make it their business, all their days, to mortify the indwelling power of sin. ...do you mortify; do you make it your daily work' be always at it whilst you live;cease not a day from this work; be killing sin, or it will be killing you. Your being dead with Christ virtually, your being quickened with him, will not excuse you from this work.

Full Text Here

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

We should not lose sight of the fact that justification is by faith alone and faith is receptive by nature. In sanctification the other graces are wrought in the person but these graces are creative. Therefore, although God works faith with all other graces in the person, faith is given as the instrument of receiving Christ and His righteousness, whereas the other graces are given for the pupose of bringng forth a Christ-like character and behaviour. Distinction must be made between them to the effect that we can produce nothing as a part of our justification but we must make concerted effort to be productive Christians as a part of sanctification; and in both cases -- the ability to rest in none but Christ in justification as well as the desire to live for Christ in sanctification -- the grace is the inwrought gift of God.

This is big in my estimation. A lot of guys separate the the two when they shouldn't and make to many differences between when they shouldn't. Just my humble opinion. Many people do not understand Grace from the word Charis in my humble opinion. It is the word translated grace.

I wrote these two older posts a long time ago.

How do you define grace? I would like to understand what you are saying?

I do believe we need a good dose of law preaching. It was in the the law of God that King David encouraged us to delight in. It is meditating upon it that keeps us in the way and cleanses us. It is the law of the Lord that converts (revives) the soul.

Just for reference
(Psa 1:2) But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

(Psa 19:7) The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
(Psa 19:8) The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.

(Psa 94:12) Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest, O LORD, and teachest him out of thy law;

(Psa 119:1) Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.

(Psa 119:9) Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.
(Psa 119:10) With my whole heart have I sought thee: O let me not wander from thy commandments.
(Psa 119:11) Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.
(Psa 119:12) Blessed art thou, O LORD: teach me thy statutes.

(Rom 7:7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

(Rom 7:12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
(Rom 7:13) Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.


The reason I mentioned the Titus text in reference to grace is that grace leads us into obedience. It uses the law to reveal God's will for the life of the Christian. We are free from the condemnation of the law but not our obligation as creatures to obey it. We please God by doing his will. And we need the light of the law to keep His will in focus. We still have indwelling sin to combat. We still have the world, the devil, and the flesh trying to keep us blinded and snared. We need good law preaching by the Grace of God.

I believe most of modern day Christendom has a deficient understanding of Grace based upon some some old definitions and scripture. If we had a better understanding of God's grace no one could conclude anything to be cheap concerning it. It's cost of imparting it was paid by Christ.

In Titus Grace teaches us.
(Tit 2:11-12) For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

In 2 Corintians it is used synomously with Christ's power working in us.

(2Co 12:8-9) For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

The Greek word charis is translated grace. In the old Strongs greek dictionary there is a definition given which says, "especially the divine influence upon the heart, and it's reflection in the life."

The Puritans didn't believe grace meant just unmerited favor. God's grace is unmerited but it is much more than that. Charismata is the operation of God's Spirit working through man.

Grace is monergistic as it is also synergistic. It isn't both at the same time. Salvation by Grace is monergistic. Monergistic Grace is the Holy Spirit breathing life into our souls and quickening us into New Creatures in Christ. It is unmerited but it isn't just unmerited favor. That is where the semi Pelagians (Independent Baptists or Free Will advocates) greatly err. There definition of Grace is faulty. That is why their Grace is truly no grace at all.

Synergistic Grace is what Phi 2:12,13 is about.

(Phi 2:12-13) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Just my two cents on the topic.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

I accidentally deleted a post by someone that can be seen in my prior post.. It was by Reverend Winzer.

 

[Gator_Baptist]

Good question.

Question 75: What is sanctification? Answer: Sanctification is a work of God's grace, whereby they whom God has, before the foundation of the world, chosen to be holy, are in time, through the powerful operation of his Spirit applying the death and resurrection of Christ unto them, renewed in their whole man after the image of God; having the seeds of repentance unto life, and all other saving graces, put into their hearts, and those graces so stirred up, increased, and strengthened, as that they more and more die unto sin, and rise unto newness of life.

I'm struggling to see how it could be any less monergistic than justification. Though, perhaps I'm not understanding the nuances of the terms. For instance, if we say we co-operate through attending to the means of grace, is it not God who stirred up our hearts to attend to His means of growing us in spiritual life? Regarding justification, we willingly embrace Christ after our hearts have been regenerated by His sovereign grace; however, this does not cause us to call justification synergistic. In the same way, it seems that though we willingly participate in the means of grace, it is always God who stirs up our hearts to do so.

Is this not orthodox? I understand that sanctification is not a "let go and let God" situation; however, is not every growth in grace, at the root level, because God is working in our hearts?

*Edit* - It seems minds much stronger than my own differ with me... I'm willing to trust others judgment in divine things, but I'm still struggling with understanding how sanctification is not, at the root, monergistic. I checked Gill's Body of Divinity, and he seems to view sanctification in more monergistic terms, at least in its cause.

It must be remembered that while the subject is passive with respect to that Divine act of grace whereby he is regenerated, after he is regenerated he co-operates with the Holy Ghost in the work of sanctification. The Holy Ghost gives the grace, and prompts and directs in its exercise, and the soul exercises it. Thus, while sanctification is a grace, it is also a duty; and the soul is both bound and encouraged to use with diligence, in dependence upon the Holy Spirit, all the means for its spiritual renovation, and to form those habits of resisting evil and of right action in which sanctification so largely consists.

- A.A. Hodge

This is basically the way that I have understood it. And since justification and sanctification are pretty much inseparable, I think that sanctification has to be monergistic if justification is. But one way that I have heard it explained is that if there is an omnipotent being living in you, then He will get His way. Nothing will stop an unstoppable force from getting what it wants. And, so, if the Holy Spirit wants sanctification and holiness, then the Holy Spirit is powerful enough to obtain that and coerce my will to be subservient to His will. I know that may sound like quietism, but I am not saying that we should just sit back and wait. The way that I view it is that we should actively attempt to mortify sin, and then realize that it was 100% of the Holy Spirit apart from my cooperation.

With that view, it sounds as if that puts me at odds with a lot of people here, but that could be due to ignorance on my part, which is why I asked the question in the first place. For those who are advocating for a synergistic view on sanctification, where would you find this idea in scripture? I am not fully convinced that Philippians 2:12-13 really says that sanctification is synergistic because I have found the argument made in the article that I posted above to be very convincing. Are there are any other places in scripture where this idea can be found or does the whole idea rest on a certain understanding of Philippians 2:12-13?

 

[Herald]

Is sanctification synergistic? It depends on how you are looking at. If your view is from the horizontal plane, than yes, sanctification is synergistic. If the vertical aspect is considered then sanctification is vertical. Philippians 2:12, 13 has already been quoted, but something has been missing in the discussion of this text.

Philippians 2:12, 13 12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

Paul commands the Philippians to work out their salvation. Only exegetical gymnastics could misunderstand the responsibility the individual has in walking in a manner worthy of his calling (Eph. 4:1). But the ability of the believer to walk in such a manner is because of the work of grace in their life. For it is God who is at work in you. Not only is He at work, but it is according to His will. This will is as much the decretive will of God as is the calling of His elect unto salvation. God is the One who is ultimately at work; perfecting the faith of Christian (Phil. 1:6). There is no doubting our participation, but it's the result of God's will, not consubstantial with it.

 

[Andres]

Here is an excerpt from a J.I. Packer article:

Regeneration was a momentary monergistic act of quickening the spiritually dead. As such, it was God's work alone. Sanctification, however, is in one sense synergistic - it is an ongoing cooperative process in which regenerate persons, alive to God and freed from sin's dominion (Rom. 6:11, 14-18), are required to exert themselves in sustained obedience. God's method of sanctification is neither activism (self-reliant activity) nor apathy (God-reliant passivity), but God-dependent effort (2 Cor. 7:1; Phil. 3:10-14; Heb. 12:14). Knowing that without Christ's enabling we can do nothing, morally speaking, as we should, and that he is ready to strengthen us for all that we have to do (Phil. 4:13), we "stay put" (remain, abide) in Christ, asking for his help constantly - and we receive it (Col. 1:11; 1 Tim. 1:12; 2 Tim. 1:7; 2:1).

I agree with some of the previous posters that sanctification can be viewed as monergistic in that we could never be made holy in and of ourselves, however if the work were completely God's alone, then would not every saint be perfectly holy?

 

[jayce475]

Here is an excerpt from a J.I. Packer article:

Regeneration was a momentary monergistic act of quickening the spiritually dead. As such, it was God's work alone. Sanctification, however, is in one sense synergistic - it is an ongoing cooperative process in which regenerate persons, alive to God and freed from sin's dominion (Rom. 6:11, 14-18), are required to exert themselves in sustained obedience. God's method of sanctification is neither activism (self-reliant activity) nor apathy (God-reliant passivity), but God-dependent effort (2 Cor. 7:1; Phil. 3:10-14; Heb. 12:14). Knowing that without Christ's enabling we can do nothing, morally speaking, as we should, and that he is ready to strengthen us for all that we have to do (Phil. 4:13), we "stay put" (remain, abide) in Christ, asking for his help constantly - and we receive it (Col. 1:11; 1 Tim. 1:12; 2 Tim. 1:7; 2:1).

I agree with some of the previous posters that sanctification can be viewed as monergistic in that we could never be made holy in and of ourselves, however if the work were completely God's alone, then would not every saint be perfectly holy?

Been looking at Romans 8:29 (For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.) and wondering if it applies at all to this debate. Also, how about Rom 9:15-16 (For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.)? Is the whole of Romans 9 limited to purely regeneration, or is there some truth about sanctification to be glimpsed as well? If we view sanctification in the same light as regeneration, then the answer as to why not all are equally sanctified will be the same as that for why not all are saved. Namely, that God chooses it to be so according to His own good will. Does this take our view of God's sovereignty too far? I'm just throwing some suggestions around, as I'm kind of on the fence.

 

[Peairtach]

I agree that a better word than synergistic could be used for progressive sanctification, since we would never co-operate at all willingly with the Holy Spirit in progressive sanctification if we hadn't been monergistically regenerated in the first place.

So its down to the sole power of God (monergistiism) in

(a) In bringing us to spiritual life from death in the first place.

(b) In the Holy Spirit giving our new natures, which now have some inherent will to co-operate with Him, the power to make progress in sanctification.

 

[louis_jp]

What if one doesn't cooperate in their sanctification? Can you be saved yet unsanctified?

 

[Herald]

What if one doesn't cooperate in their sanctification? Can you be saved yet unsanctified?

Romans 8:29,30 29For those whom he foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

Any cooperation by man is the result of the work of saving grace in our life. Yes, we do participate, or cooperate, in our sanctification. But we must be careful to understand that we can take no credit for obeying. The ability to obey God is also a work of grace. God still receives all the glory; just as He does in salvation. In fact, our sanctification is the working out of our salvation (Phil. 2).

 

[louis_jp]

What if one doesn't cooperate in their sanctification? Can you be saved yet unsanctified?

Romans 8:29,30 29For those whom he foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

Any cooperation by man is the result of the work of saving grace in our life. Yes, we do participate, or cooperate, in our sanctification. But we must be careful to understand that we can take no credit for obeying. The ability to obey God is also a work of grace. God still receives all the glory; just as He does in salvation. In fact, our sanctification is the working out of our salvation (Phil. 2).

Sounds like the Roman Catholic view of justification/sanctification. Why are they wrong, but we are not?

 

[Herald]

Sounds like the Roman Catholic view of justification/sanctification. Why are they wrong, but we are not?

You misunderstand the Romanist view of sanctification. The Romanist view requires human effort (works). Works are as efficacious as grace according to Rome. The Protestant view considers our part in sanctification as a result of justification. The Christian will become more like Christ because he is able to (2 Cor. 5:17). God is working in the believer (Phil. 1:6; 2:13), as opposed to man working independent but in cooperation with God.

 

[jayce475]

What if one doesn't cooperate in their sanctification? Can you be saved yet unsanctified?

Certainly not. That's antinomianism. Sanctified to varying extents, yes, but no evidence of sanctification means absolute death. We may bear different amounts of fruit, but if there is no fruit, we will be cast into eternal damnation. As for who are truly those bearing genuine fruit, God alone will judge.
Matt 7:17-19 "Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire."
Which is why, there is at the very least some degree of monergism in sanctification, unless we bring that aspect of sanctification into our definition of regeneration in itself. This is where the idea of definitive sanctification comes in I believe, and much of this debate is to sort out how it fits into the whole picture of God's sovereign will.

 

[Peairtach]

What if one doesn't cooperate in their sanctification? Can you be saved yet unsanctified?

Romans 8:29,30 29For those whom he foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

Any cooperation by man is the result of the work of saving grace in our life. Yes, we do participate, or cooperate, in our sanctification. But we must be careful to understand that we can take no credit for obeying. The ability to obey God is also a work of grace. God still receives all the glory; just as He does in salvation. In fact, our sanctification is the working out of our salvation (Phil. 2).

Sounds like the Roman Catholic view of justification/sanctification. Why are they wrong, but we are not?

The Romanist view is that we are justified by faith plus works. According to Romanist teaching it's grace working faith and our good works in us that gets us to Heaven or purgatory. It's thoroughly synergistic.

The Protestant view is that we are justified by faith alone through grace alone. We contribute nothing to our justification.

We are no more or less justified after years of progressive sanctification, or years in Heaven, than we were the moment we first trusted in Jesus , by God's grace.

Protestants make a clear distinction between justification (which includes adoption) and sanctification, although you never have true justification without true sanctification or vice versa.

 

[louis_jp]

I don't see the difference between what you guys are saying about sanctification and what Rome says about justificiation/sanctification (which they don't distinguish). They don't believe in "works" in the sense of unaided human effort. They conceive of it in terms of God's grace working in a person, and that person's cooperation with that grace. Which is what I hear you saying about sanctification.

Moreover, if one has to be sanctified to be saved, then the distinction between justification and sanctification breaks down. Just like Rome, you are saying that we need to cooperate with God's grace working in our lives in order to be saved. Simply putting that requirement later in the process doesn't change the end result.

I don't mean to be dense, but this is how I am hearing it.

 

[jayce475]

I don't see the difference between what you guys are saying about sanctification and what Rome says about justificiation/sanctification (which they don't distinguish). They don't believe in "works" in the sense of unaided human effort. They conceive of it in terms of God's grace working in a person, and that person's cooperation with that grace. Which is what I hear you saying about sanctification.

Moreover, if one has to be sanctified to be saved, then the distinction between justification and sanctification breaks down. Just like Rome, you are saying that we need to cooperate with God's grace working in our lives in order to be saved. Simply putting that requirement later in the process doesn't change the end result.

I don't mean to be dense, but this is how I am hearing it.

What you are saying of RC justification/sanctification is contrary to what I've been taught about it thus far. Yes, they believe in God's grace, but it is not conceived in terms of God's direct workings with the hearts of the believers, but rather works through the sacraments and the Catholic church itself. On the second part, no, one does not have to be sanctified to be saved, but a saved person will naturally bear fruits due to his regeneration, which is always accompanied by saving faith and justification. Sanctification is not a requirement to be saved, but rather, it is something which shows that one has true saving faith. It's nothing but a symptom of the marvelous regeneration of God, albeit a very important symptom that never ever fails to appear.

 

[louis_jp]

Jason,

We understand the Roman system differently. There is the sacramental aspect, but there is also this other.

On sanctification in salvation: If you require human action in sanctification, doesn't that make sanctification contingent on something that was not present in justification? If so, then how can one define sanctification as being the inevitable fruit of justification? If justification is monergistic, and sanctification flows inevitably out of it, then sanctification would be monergistic too, no?

 

[jayce475]

Jason,

We understand the Roman system differently. There is the sacramental aspect, but there is also this other.

On sanctification in salvation: If you require human action in sanctification, doesn't that make sanctification contingent on something that was not present in justification? If so, then how can one define sanctification as being the inevitable fruit of justification? If justification is monergistic, and sanctification flows inevitably out of it, then sanctification would be monergistic too, no?

Would you care to show from the RC dogma how there is also "this other"? I'm not well-versed in it at all, so please show me what the RCs really think if you will.

Justification is monergistic, and sanctification flows inevitably out of it, so there is definitely at least part of it that is monergistic. The debate here is whether all of it is monergistic, or if it only takes place to a certain extent (with the idea of definitive sanctification) with the rest of it being synergistic. It's also not entirely clear whether this portion that is monergistic should accurately be called part of sanctification or be considered part of regeneration, though it is definitely not part of justification.

 

[louis_jp]

This would be a good place to start (skip down the page to get to the Roman doctrine):

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Justification