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That makes sense. Thank you.A week or certainly a year from now and more no one will understand the context, so it is also a good idea if you split off from a thread that has the background to what you are posting about or a thread gets closed with a suggested reboot option, that a link to the context is put in the OP. https://www.puritanboard.com/threads/revoice-strikes-again.97290/
Thank you Edward.http://www.graceseattle.org/uploads/documents/orders-of-worship/20190120-OW.pdf
Numbered page 14, PDF page 17.
All of the weekend activities are set out. Collins speaking in the worship services, the giving over to the Sunday School hour for a panel discussion, and the private meetings for homosexuals (or their spouses or family members) to be held at an undisclosed location.
http://www.graceseattle.org/uploads/documents/orders-of-worship/20190120-OW.pdf
Numbered page 14, PDF page 17.
All of the weekend activities are set out. Collins speaking in the worship services, the giving over to the Sunday School hour for a panel discussion, and the private meetings for homosexuals (or their spouses or family members) to be held at an undisclosed location.
I looked at this link and they have some Reflection Quotes. One of them is this:
[John, the disciple of Jesus] regards his call as a disciple not as a call to service, but an entitlement of privilege and exclusion. James Edwards, The Gospel According to Luke
I know I am not as smart and theologically trained as most people here, but, doesn't that quote say accusing slander towards the apostle John? Blasphemy towards the scripture he wrote? Do I need to reflect all day so I can figure out John had a bad attitude?
We probably ought to have more context before picking apart that quote. But there are places in Luke where John certainly had a bad attitude (as did the other disciples, at times).
We probably ought to have more context before picking apart that quote. But there are places in Luke where John certainly had a bad attitude (as did the other disciples, at times).
I looked at this link and they have some Reflection Quotes. One of them is this:
[John, the disciple of Jesus] regards his call as a disciple not as a call to service, but an entitlement of privilege and exclusion. James Edwards, The Gospel According to Luke
I know I am not as smart and theologically trained as most people here, but, doesn't that quote say accusing slander towards the apostle John? Blasphemy towards the scripture he wrote? Do I need to reflect all day so I can figure out John had a bad attitude?
What sort of context would put that dogs breakfast into a good light?
Is that is the group within the PCA that desires to have Christians repent of how we have "mistreated" gays, lesbians, and transgendered, and to be better treating them, more accepting of the preferences on this issue?This doesn't have the full page, which no longer exists on their home page, but does prove that this PCA church did have the leadership of Revoice at their Lords Day service.
Yes, Revoice is the group in the PCA made up of several graduates of Covenant Seminary that wants the church to find a place for LGBTQ+, to help them flourish as Christians and to help this group bring their "gay treasure" into heaven as well as to redeem the gay culture.Is that is the group within the PCA that desires to have Christians repent of now we heave "mistreated" gays, lesbians, and transgendered, and to be better treating them, more accepting of the preferences on this issue?
They are asking the Church to accept what God has already defined as being abominations in His sight though. I fear that they are not asking us to just treat them with love of Christ, but to actually support and agree with their chosen lifestyles.Yes, Revoice is the group in the PCA made up of several graduates of Covenant Seminary that wants the church to find a place for LGBTQ+, to help them flourish as Christians and to help this group bring their "gay treasure" into heaven as well as to redeem the gay culture.
Yes, Revoice is the group in the PCA made up of several graduates of Covenant Seminary that wants the church to find a place for LGBTQ+, to help them flourish as Christians and to help this group bring their "gay treasure" into heaven as well as to redeem the gay culture.
Several graduates of other institutions as well. I don't agree with Revoice, or the philosophy that undergirded the conference, but Revoice is not a group of CTS alumni who desire to make the PCA LGBTQ+ inclusive. That's bearing false witness.
Also, part of the problem with revoice is that the speakers were not in agreement with one another. It's unfair to say that every speaker was for bringing about "gay treasure" and redeeming queer culture.
Again, I am not for Revoice. But if conservatives are going to respond to these issues appropriately, we must do truthfully, critically and appropriately.
Silas22,Several graduates of other institutions as well. I don't agree with Revoice, or the philosophy that undergirded the conference, but Revoice is not a group of CTS alumni who desire to make the PCA LGBTQ+ inclusive. That's bearing false witness.
Also, part of the problem with revoice is that the speakers were not in agreement with one another. It's unfair to say that every speaker was for bringing about "gay treasure" and redeeming queer culture.
Again, I am not for Revoice. But if conservatives are going to respond to these issues appropriately, we must do truthfully, critically and appropriately.
I am fairly certain Revoice is a group OUTSIDE the PCA that some within the PCA are involved with.Yes, Revoice is the group in the PCA
If a Baptist church, like mine is, was associated with a fellowship or a Denomination of fellow Baptist churches, we would appeal this to the district Board of Elders.Give Presbyterianism more time to work. I hope it never happens, but after all if this were a Baptist church, how on earth could it be dealt with other than internet articles, blogs, and parachurch conferences ( the courts of public opinion With no ecclesiastical authority)? Please, if you have not already, consider bringing these issues to your local PCA sessions and encourage them to consider some form of action. Pray for the two presbyteries involved with Revoice and that they would accept brotherly rebuke and be willing to repent. Pray for those elders who see Revoice for what it really is, an unbiblical and anti-confessional response to man’s sinfulness. Pray that those Elders and courts would be willing to take some form of biblical corrective action.
The PCA has some issues to conquer, but they are not Congregationalist! An understanding of faithful Presbyterianism will better equip one to weigh in......
Grant,Give Presbyterianism more time to work. I hope it never happens, but after all if this were a Baptist church, how on earth could it be dealt with other than internet articles, blogs, and parachurch conferences ( the courts of public opinion With no ecclesiastical authority)? Please, if you have not already, consider bringing these issues to your local PCA sessions and encourage them to consider some form of action. Pray for the two presbyteries involved with Revoice and that they would accept brotherly rebuke and be willing to repent. Pray for those elders who see Revoice for what it really is, an unbiblical and anti-confessional response to man’s sinfulness. Pray that those Elders and courts would be willing to take some form of biblical corrective action.
The PCA has some issues to conquer, but they are not Congregationalist! An understanding of faithful Presbyterianism will better equip one to weigh in......
Santos,Grant,
I hear what you are saying. But isn't a year a pretty long time to deal with this? I am praying for these groups. It hits home for me in a major way. I know you see SBC in my signature but I attend a PCA and have been for over a year. We have been prayerfully considering joining this PCA church for a while now. But these things are truly concerning.
You see my son was struggling with homosexual temptations and was fighting what I thought was a pretty good fight. Well his class mates who attended our former churches youth group encouraged him to be himself and his youth pastor encouraged him and the other youth to read books by LGBTQ+/woke writers and within a year and a half of giving up his fight my son was HIV positive.
Does faithful Presbyterianism mean a one year thoughtful response to a 6 month terminal cancer when peoples eternal souls are at stake? It seems dangerous and unbiblical.
The time is now for all conservative Elders to gather their plums and take/encourage biblical corrective action.
P.S. I hope this Revoice mess will serve to awaken many in the PCA as the Ents awoke upon learning of how many of their brothers had been destroyed at the hand of Saruman! "Release the RIVER!"
P.S. I hope this Revoice mess will serve to awaken many in the PCA as the Ents awoke upon learning of how many of their brothers had been destroyed at the hand of Saruman! "Release the RIVER
Grant,
I hear what you are saying. But isn't a year a pretty long time to deal with this? I am praying for these groups. It hits home for me in a major way. I know you see SBC in my signature but I attend a PCA and have been for over a year. We have been prayerfully considering joining this PCA church for a while now. But these things are truly concerning.
You see my son was struggling with homosexual temptations and was fighting what I thought was a pretty good fight. Well his class mates who attended our former churches youth group encouraged him to be himself and his youth pastor encouraged him and the other youth to read books by LGBTQ+/woke writers and within a year and a half of giving up his fight my son was HIV positive.
Does faithful Presbyterianism mean a one year thoughtful response to a 6 month terminal cancer when peoples eternal souls are at stake? It seems dangerous and unbiblical.
The PCA has some issues to conquer, but they are not Congregationalist! An understanding of faithful Presbyterianism will better equip one to weigh in......