Preaching/Teaching elder?

[earl40]

Is there such a thing as a Elder who is ordained to teach and not preach? I may be mistaken in that I believe I heard RC Sproul say he was ordained to teach and not be a pastor.

 

[raydixon9]

see this Office of Doctor

 

[raydixon9]

more recently doctor

 

[earl40]

more recently doctor

Thank you for the links.

 

[earl40]

So do those who were ordained as doctors get a "new" ordination as "pastors" if they wish to pastor?

 

[Edward]

The office is that of Teaching Elder. The man is ordained to a particular call, which may be as a pastor of a church or as some other approved call.

Start with BCO 7-2, then 8-4 and 8-5. " As he stands to proclaim the Gospel, he is termed preacher." (8-2)

So one is ordained as a teaching elder, but as the teaching elder preaches, you can call him preacher.

So do those who were ordained as doctors get a "new" ordination as "pastors" if they wish to pastor?

Short answer, 'no'. Long answer, 'there is no office of "Doctor" in the PCA BCO. '

 

[earl40]

The office is that of Teaching Elder. The man is ordained to a particular call, which may be as a pastor of a church or as some other approved call.

Start with BCO 7-2, then 8-4 and 8-5. " As he stands to proclaim the Gospel, he is termed preacher." (8-2)

So one is ordained as a teaching elder, but as the teaching elder preaches, you can call him preacher.

So do those who were ordained as doctors get a "new" ordination as "pastors" if they wish to pastor?

Short answer, 'no'. Long answer, 'there is no office of "Doctor" in the PCA BCO. '

Yes indeed, and that is why I thought it strange when I thought I heard RC say that he was not ordained as a pastor but a teacher.

 

[tangleword]

That is strange, and a little non-nonsensical. We see this happen in practice; ordained teaching elders who are not serving as pastors but as teachers.
RC also pastors a Presbyterian church that is not part of a presbytery which is much weirder (and somewhat disturbing) than this.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

The office is that of Teaching Elder. The man is ordained to a particular call, which may be as a pastor of a church or as some other approved call.

Start with BCO 7-2, then 8-4 and 8-5. " As he stands to proclaim the Gospel, he is termed preacher." (8-2)

So one is ordained as a teaching elder, but as the teaching elder preaches, you can call him preacher.

So do those who were ordained as doctors get a "new" ordination as "pastors" if they wish to pastor?

Short answer, 'no'. Long answer, 'there is no office of "Doctor" in the PCA BCO. '

Yes indeed, and that is why I thought it strange when I thought I heard RC say that he was not ordained as a pastor but a teacher.

Not sure when he's referring to but he might be referring to an ordination in another denomination. There are three types of TE's in the BCO: Senior, Associate, and Assistant Pastor.

 

[earl40]

The office is that of Teaching Elder. The man is ordained to a particular call, which may be as a pastor of a church or as some other approved call.

Start with BCO 7-2, then 8-4 and 8-5. " As he stands to proclaim the Gospel, he is termed preacher." (8-2)

So one is ordained as a teaching elder, but as the teaching elder preaches, you can call him preacher.

So do those who were ordained as doctors get a "new" ordination as "pastors" if they wish to pastor?

Short answer, 'no'. Long answer, 'there is no office of "Doctor" in the PCA BCO. '

Yes indeed, and that is why I thought it strange when I thought I heard RC say that he was not ordained as a pastor but a teacher.

Not sure when he's referring to but he might be referring to an ordination in another denomination. There are three types of TE's in the BCO: Senior, Associate, and Assistant Pastor.

No doubt about that it was a "different" denomination PC(USA) in 1965 and am thinking this may be why he said he was not ordained to preach but to teach.

 

[Edward]

RC also pastors a Presbyterian church that is not part of a presbytery which is much weirder (and somewhat disturbing) than this.

The BCO allows Presbyteries to permit ordained men to labor out of bounds. If the labor is in a presbytery other than the one to which the pastor belongs, then the presbytery covering the location of service must also consent. (That was just one of the problems which arose when PNW allowed one of their FV pastors to labor out of bounds at a CREC church in Alabama over the objections of Evangel Presbytery).

And I have seen PCA presbyteries allow a pastor to labor out of bounds at, for example, a Christian school.

 

[TylerRay]

There is most definitely an office of Teacher distinct from that of Pastor in classical Presbyterianism.

Westminster Form of Church Government:

The scripture doth hold out the name and title of teacher, as well as of the pastor.[1 Cor. 12:28. Eph. 4:11.]

Who is also a minister of the word, as well as the pastor, and hath power of administration of the sacraments.

The Lord having given different gifts, and divers exercises according to these gifts, in the ministry of the word;[Rom. 12:6-8. 1 Cor. 12:1,4-7.] though these different gifts may meet in, and accordingly be exercised by, one and the same minister;[1 Cor. 14:3. 2 Tim. 4:2. Tit. 1:9.] yet, where be several ministers in the same congregation, they may be designed to several employments, according to the different gifts in which each of them doth most excel.[Rom. 12:6-8. 1 Cor. 12:1,4-7. 1 Pet. 4:10,11.] And he that doth more excel in exposition of scripture, in teaching sound doctrine, and in convincing gainsayers, than he doth in application, and is accordingly employed therein, may be called a teacher, or doctor, (the places alleged by the notation of the word do prove the proposition.) Nevertheless, where is but one minister in a particular congregation, he is to perform, as far as he is able, the whole work of the ministry.[2 Tim. 4:2. Tit. 1:9. 1 Tim. 6:2.]

A teacher, or doctor, is of most excellent use in schools and universities; as of old in the schools of the prophets, and at Jerusalem, where Gamaliel and others taught as doctors.

Travis Fentiman has some good resources on the subject here.

 

[TylerRay]

Dr. Sproul, however, is most definitely a pastor now, whatever office he may have been ordained to initially.

 

[earl40]

There is most definitely an office of Teacher distinct from that of Pastor in classical Presbyterianism.

Westminster Form of Church Government:

The scripture doth hold out the name and title of teacher, as well as of the pastor.[1 Cor. 12:28. Eph. 4:11.]

Who is also a minister of the word, as well as the pastor, and hath power of administration of the sacraments.

The Lord having given different gifts, and divers exercises according to these gifts, in the ministry of the word;[Rom. 12:6-8. 1 Cor. 12:1,4-7.] though these different gifts may meet in, and accordingly be exercised by, one and the same minister;[1 Cor. 14:3. 2 Tim. 4:2. Tit. 1:9.] yet, where be several ministers in the same congregation, they may be designed to several employments, according to the different gifts in which each of them doth most excel.[Rom. 12:6-8. 1 Cor. 12:1,4-7. 1 Pet. 4:10,11.] And he that doth more excel in exposition of scripture, in teaching sound doctrine, and in convincing gainsayers, than he doth in application, and is accordingly employed therein, may be called a teacher, or doctor, (the places alleged by the notation of the word do prove the proposition.) Nevertheless, where is but one minister in a particular congregation, he is to perform, as far as he is able, the whole work of the ministry.[2 Tim. 4:2. Tit. 1:9. 1 Tim. 6:2.]

A teacher, or doctor, is of most excellent use in schools and universities; as of old in the schools of the prophets, and at Jerusalem, where Gamaliel and others taught as doctors.

Travis Fentiman has some good resources on the subject here.

This gets into the propriety of schools that are not overseen by a church.