To answer the basic question, "are there a lot of obstacles," I would not expect them, apart from a few "unusual" questions that deal directly with changes in a man's beliefs regarding baptism, subjects and mode; and independency versus connectional-church polity. The fact is, that depending on this or that presbytery (or denomination), the road to travel will be more or less taxing.
But in reality, it is simply the nature of Presbyterianism, and the exams which are required of every minister, that for many outliers coming in, the experience is a shock. This is nothing but the basics, and they think someone is picking on them. Wrong. This is just Presbyterianism.
I really do not intend to get into any sort of protracted discussion/argument on the issue. It goes without saying that there are ordinations that I think NO ONE here would "recognize".
If Mr. Smith was ordained a bishop in the Roman Catholic denomination, and now wishes to join your church should you just say, "OK! no ordination necessary, you were already ordained"? Hey, he read Calvin's Institutes, Berkhof's ST, and memorized the Larger Catechism. Veeeeery good answers to all the questions. What's the objection?
If Mr. Jones was ordained by the Tri-Corner Pentecostal Church, membership: 3 members of his family, is that sufficient? He has an MDiv. from RTS!
Is this: "A call is a call is a call! don't every let anyone question your credentials--they are solid gold, all you need is sincerity and conviction," really what is being suggested?
True story:
My father was ordained in the Southern Presbyterian Church (PCUS). He transferred those credentials to the RPCES. When he became an OPC minister, he was ordained again.
Frankly, if he had let
his pride interfere with his call, I would be impoverished for it today. So, this business about "Don't let anyone tell you what to do!" is for the birds. Do what the people in command of the situation ask, or else walk. Its up to you. They are trying to do what is
right for conscience sake in most cases.
These kinds of cases go to show that there is more to denominational differences than disagreements over mode of baptism, or how important "TULIP" is. This is where the ecclesiology rubber meets the road. We think this business is divinely established, not just one workable option among many. And it is part of who we are. This is part of
"the firm grasp of theology held by the new denomination" which you spoke of.
Pastor Jerry met the ordination requirements for his independent church, with no fixed doctrinal statement (no creed but Christ!), founded in 1950. And now he wants to join a connectional, confessional church with a theology, piety and practice that is 450 years old.
If he is throwing off his Independency, why would he balk at being ordained by the church to which he is in some historic respect returning?
The very objection--which Toby couched in terms of "pride" on the part of the church and not the individual--has to do, at least in part, with his being Congregational in polity, and not Presbyterian. The Presbyterian elder has been "submitting to the brethren" from the moment he started his process to become ordained. He is "under authority" even while being pastor. Which is why even if transferring to another jurisdiction, within or without his former denomination, he submits to the process he is put through.
Ordination is not some "lifetime badge" of acceptance anyone and everyone is expected to recognize. I will (probably) accept a man's ordained position if I am in his church, or we meet in a venue where the expectations are that we should cordially receive one another, like say a pastor's conference.
But I am not authorized to perform a baptism in a baptist's church by those baptists, on the basis of my ordination! Not even if I agree to do it by dunking! Neither is the baptist minister in one of ours. But ordained, and a minister in good standing in the OPC, my father (from a different OPC presbytery) may without any special examination by our session come into our church and baptize one of his grandchildren (all things done in good order, of course). So could a PCA pastor, on the basis of the pre-established relations between our two denominations.
I'm not even saying that I know
for certain that in the end, you, or someone else, transferring to a Presbyterian denomination WILL have to be re-ordained. I do know from personal experience that there are precious few shortcuts in Presbyterianism. I have been through THREE
FULL EXAMS. Once, for OPC licensure; Twice, for PCA ordination; Thrice, for OPC transfer. Three hour-long (minimum) theology exams on the floor of Presbytery. I have been examined in Greek and Hebrew 2 times (by committee). In English Bible and in Church History multiple times in both committee and floor. I have submitted 4 separate papers (exegetical and theological) to the three presbyteries. I have preached for examination twice, once when licensed, once before ordination. I have been examined separately in Sacraments and in Apologetics. I have had to give account of myself and my ministry. (Does this sound strangely like 2 Cor 11 & 12 ? I must be out of my mind...)
If you did ALL this, and were told at the end of all of it, "we intend to lay hands on you for ordination, a second time?," why not?
, I do have a question I hope someone could help me with.
so that's all I'm going to say about that). The point that I was making in regards to "pride" on the part of the church, I think I covered in the paragraph above. this is not a pride issue, this is a respect issue, in regards to the individual who has more than proven himself. Again this is not to say that there should not be an interview and a screening, but I personally would have been insulted, not on the part of pride but on the side of disrespect toward what God has called me to and what the denom would care to or fail to recognize. I would have never subjected myself to what I went through for a second time just for the sake of changing a denomination. I would sooner go the route of Pastor Jerry, this doesn't make me any less a servant of God nor does it make the "perspective" denom better. I truly believe that there is an element of pride on the side of a denomination that would tout there legitimacy based on time.
) and felt led to a denomination that fits more with your reformed theology I would consider only the denominations that recognize your accomplishments for what they are and what God has done through you. There are other options (ARBCA, or even the CCCC). Again let me say that, God has done a good work in you, don't let man make the decision that God's call wasn't good enough. also remember, when you are canidating, their not just interviewing you, your interviewing them.
