Pastor with Aspergers
- Thread starter Quatchu
- Start date
- Status
he beholds
Puritan Board Doctor
This is a hard Q. since it feels like the chance to offend is pretty great. I'll say that I've not met many people with aspergers, so my view is incomplete, I'm sure. But the people I have known just did not have any interpersonal relationship skills at all, so I cannot imagine them even wanting to be pastors. If aspergers is not always manifested in the ways that I've seen it, then perhaps? Maybe you could explain what a person with the level of aspergers that you have in mind are like. I am sure I am not the only one with limited exposure. Again, I did actually know people with aspergers, but the two, maybe three, people I knew might not have been the only way to be with the syndrome. The girl I knew the closest was very, very disagreeable and antisocial, and even aggressive. But perhaps that is not aspergers in total--that's why I'd appreciate an explanation of what aspergers is by definition in case you are not speaking of people that are like what I knew.
I SO don't want to offend. Hence the backpeddling. But I want to be sure that I am being clear that I might NOT know what aspergers always is, in case I am off in my understanding of it.
I SO don't want to offend. Hence the backpeddling. But I want to be sure that I am being clear that I might NOT know what aspergers always is, in case I am off in my understanding of it.
Notthemama1984
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
If his preaching skills are very good, then I would hire him.
O'GodHowGreatThouArt
Puritan Board Sophomore
It is definitely warrant for further prayer and testing of ability to carry out pastoral duties, but I wouldn't want someone to be kicked out of consideration just because a form of Autism exists in their life.
@Jessica: What you saw is the more severe form of Asberger's Syndrome. While many are like that, you also have just as many who would be just like normal people. Unless you saw their medical records, you would need a trained doctor to be able to determine if the "normal" group is autistic. It's one of those disorders that you almost never see a middle-ground on.
@Jessica: What you saw is the more severe form of Asberger's Syndrome. While many are like that, you also have just as many who would be just like normal people. Unless you saw their medical records, you would need a trained doctor to be able to determine if the "normal" group is autistic. It's one of those disorders that you almost never see a middle-ground on.
Pilgrim
Puritanboard Commissioner
I would have to know more about his ability to interact with others and his gifting overall. The key thing, it seems to me, is whether or not the man is qualified according to scripture, not what label a doctor has affixed to him.
I have little regard for the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, although at times it can describe symptoms well. It seems to me that autism is the faddish diagnosis these days. (By saying that, I don't want to discount the issues that many have with this syndrome.) I have a brother who has autism who is profoundly retarded. In the early-mid 1970's heaven and earth had to be moved to get him diagnosed. The process took years. Now we're being told that something like 1 in 100 has an autism spectrum disorder. Could it be that autism is to the 2000's what ADD was to the 90's? But I don't want to hijack yet another thread.
I have little regard for the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, although at times it can describe symptoms well. It seems to me that autism is the faddish diagnosis these days. (By saying that, I don't want to discount the issues that many have with this syndrome.) I have a brother who has autism who is profoundly retarded. In the early-mid 1970's heaven and earth had to be moved to get him diagnosed. The process took years. Now we're being told that something like 1 in 100 has an autism spectrum disorder. Could it be that autism is to the 2000's what ADD was to the 90's? But I don't want to hijack yet another thread.
Notthemama1984
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
The real question is what about a man who is single, has Aspergers, and competes in local MMA tournaments?
I have a son on the autism spectrum who has told me many times he wants to grow up to be a pastor. If he does so, it will demonstrate that God provides all the gifts necessary for such a ministry. Sometimes we forget that it is God that has shaped and equipped the church officers. They can no more produce their abilities than they could produce their salvation.
Would I give a flat approval of anyone with autism/Aspergers serving as elder? No. It depends completely on the church recognizing the gifts in a particular person. Since autism can greatly diminish social skills, I could see where capabilities such as hospitality and teaching might be rare. However, we should take care not to define these gifts by what we have experienced. Jonathan Edwards was apparently uncomfortable in generalized social interaction and did not engage in the house-to-house visitation expected then. But he was more than willing to discuss difficulties in private and to discuss questions with a limited number of people present.
BTW, autism is a medical disorder: it affects everything from how the inner ear functions to digestion and muscular strength.
Another BTW: there are some fascinating correlations between genius and autism.
Would I give a flat approval of anyone with autism/Aspergers serving as elder? No. It depends completely on the church recognizing the gifts in a particular person. Since autism can greatly diminish social skills, I could see where capabilities such as hospitality and teaching might be rare. However, we should take care not to define these gifts by what we have experienced. Jonathan Edwards was apparently uncomfortable in generalized social interaction and did not engage in the house-to-house visitation expected then. But he was more than willing to discuss difficulties in private and to discuss questions with a limited number of people present.
BTW, autism is a medical disorder: it affects everything from how the inner ear functions to digestion and muscular strength.
Another BTW: there are some fascinating correlations between genius and autism.
It would depend on the person and the maturity they obtain in their functioning. I have a teen who comes by my house and stays a lot. He has this diagnosis. He has greatly improved socially since he has been around here the last few years. One of the first things I started making him do was look at me when he talked to me. We have taken small steps and he has become very empathetic and caring for others situations. He is also very intelligent and can prove to be wise. He is also a major computer geek. I let him set up a server station here in my house. I suppose the level of the infirmity might be one thing to consider. But I would say that the Elders could tell if a person is qualified or not. I would trust the Elders to make the decisions. But I personally believe the diagnosis isn't something that necessarily disqualifies a person. There are a lot of other things to consider in the situation.
Jack K
Puritan Board Doctor
We must not forget that none of us—absolutely none of us—is naturally gifted with the social skills and love for others required of an elder/pastor. Such abilities come to us only by the supernatural work of God. And I, for one, do not wish to imagine that God has given such grace to a self-centered man like myself but is surely withholding it from a believer with Asperger's. The man should not be thought of as automatically disqualified.
TimV
Puritanboard Botanist
Sorry, Jack, but that's dead wrong. Obviously people are born, i.e. naturally gifted with different levels of social skills. My youngest has Down's, and at 15 years can write his name but nothing else. Would you claim he shouldn't automatically be disqualified? he can't even talk. Has God given you more grace than my son? No, but He has given different sorts of grace.
Ken, your post was clear, concise and dead on.
Ken, your post was clear, concise and dead on.
Quatchu
Puritan Board Sophomore
Not all forms of Asperger's have the individual finding trouble interact socially although the unsocial type is more common. There are those with Aspergers who struggle with the opposite problem and are overly social and even those those that have an abnormal amount of empathy then most people.
I used to know a pastor who was a natural introvert and just not relaxed in any kind of gathering. He wasn't an Asperger's sufferer or even close, and he was certain of his call, but he found the ministry taxed him to the limit. However hard he tried people were forever taking offence, at his demeanour, or things he said or didn't say, all which were simply down to the personality type he was born with. Luckily he had the unwavering support of his wife, who was effortlessly twice as popular in the parish as he was.
I know it won't be the same for everyone with Asperger's, - but there are positions where the man himself may be the chief sufferer from a personality trait of that kind
I know it won't be the same for everyone with Asperger's, - but there are positions where the man himself may be the chief sufferer from a personality trait of that kind
Where are you getting this information? Here is the definition from WebMD:
I agree that the definition of Aspergers is so broad that it is virtually useless. About the only thing that all Aspergers has in common is significant trouble with social interaction. Besides, even if it were true, I don't think 'an abnormal amount of empathy' would be a good trait in a Pastor either. That is not to say that teaching or even ruling in a church is out of the question.
ericfromcowtown
Puritan Board Sophomore
Aspergers is a "spectrum disorder," and as such can run from mild to severe. I would expect that one with severe aspergers may not make a good pastor, but that one with mild aspergers could function in that role. Too many other factors enter into it, to say one way or another.
Many people grow up and reach adulthood with undiagnosed aspergers. We have one acquaintance who was recently diagnosed. He's a little odd, but has a family, a highly-technical career, and otherwise gets through life. When my wife told me about his diagnosis, she commented, with a side-long glance, "I always thought you too were very similar in your manerisms..." For what it's worth, I took the aspergers screening test, and a score of 32 means you may have mild aspergers and should consult with a doctor for a complete and official diagnosis. I scored 29, which means I'm 100% normal.
Many people grow up and reach adulthood with undiagnosed aspergers. We have one acquaintance who was recently diagnosed. He's a little odd, but has a family, a highly-technical career, and otherwise gets through life. When my wife told me about his diagnosis, she commented, with a side-long glance, "I always thought you too were very similar in your manerisms..." For what it's worth, I took the aspergers screening test, and a score of 32 means you may have mild aspergers and should consult with a doctor for a complete and official diagnosis. I scored 29, which means I'm 100% normal.
Perhaps the OP should be changed to, "Would the fact that a prospective Pastor, Elder or Deacon had some extraordinary case of Aspergers Syndrome in which he didn't have have extreme difficulty with social interaction disqualify him in your mind?
There is an exception to every rule.
Puritan John
Puritan Board Freshman
Greetings brothers.
Just an add: People with Austistic Spectrum Disorders (Asperger, PDD, etc.) usually can learn these skills that naturally they have not, as the skills needed to social interaction.
Just an add: People with Austistic Spectrum Disorders (Asperger, PDD, etc.) usually can learn these skills that naturally they have not, as the skills needed to social interaction.
- Status