Mathias321
Puritan Board Freshman
I had an open theist today on Facebook quote 2 Chronicles 6:5 to try to "prove" to me God doesn't have a foreknowledge or doesn't predestine anything. Here is the discussion between me and the open theist (OT). I may have not answered it too well because I was a bit fired up at his heresy.
OT: "Hi Matthew,
Does God mean what He says?
You appear not to believe Him, saying:
"Since the day that I brought My people out of the land of Egypt, I have chosen no city from any tribe of Israel in which to build a house, that My name might be there, nor did I choose any man to be a ruler over My people Israel."
2 Chronicles 6:5
This is not anthropomorphic language; this is God revealing Himself: declaring what He is like to us, in His Word.
Matthew, had God already chosen which city where the temple was to be built by the time of the exodus, or not?"
Me:
"You are confusing God foreknowing what he would choose in due time versus the moment at which He chooses it.
If I knew an apple and an orange were in a crate before I saw the crate and decided I was going to get the apple before being offered the crate - I would be foreknowing my choice. But once the thing is there offered to me directly is when I "choose." That's the difference.
Nowhere in this verse does it say "I did not know what I would choose."
You also have to completely ignore the context of this verse in order to have it go anywhere near your interpretation. God is here saying that He has not yet given or chosen a spot to which He would dwell in a house - it is nowhere saying He did not KNOW He would have a house in which to dwell, nor does it say He did not KNOW where it would be! Same with the ruler."
OT: "Hi Matthew,
Bible: God said "I have chosen no city (by/at that time)"
Matthew (in short):
"Yes, He did"
Me: "Lol, you completely ignored everything I just said. Good job.
God forknew what He would choose at the time He ordained to choose it. This choosing isn't something lacking foreknowledge, but is a choosing which brings forth an action or change in state - which is specific in time.
"Have not" is a past tense, by the way.
Besides, you conveniently took off the preceding clause which shows it is past tense: "SINCE the day... I HAVE chosen no city no city." This is past tense, showing God has not chosen before this time a city, but will now. But you still can't answer the fact that God knew exactly what He was going to choose before time. Also, this verse is not saying He did not preordain or decree the change in state which was happening. This choosing is not a change of mind or decree, but a change of state relative to Israel (not God)."
OT: "So God lies when He says at a certain time He did not choose, because you claim He knew He would choose and what He would choose already (i.e. before all that)?"
Me: "No, you are just immature and cannot tell the difference between foreknowledge and choosing within that foreknowledge that is for a specific time in human history."
What do you guys think? How can I answer this better next time? I think I might've accidentally denied or undermined predestination in my first response.
OT: "Hi Matthew,
Does God mean what He says?
You appear not to believe Him, saying:
"Since the day that I brought My people out of the land of Egypt, I have chosen no city from any tribe of Israel in which to build a house, that My name might be there, nor did I choose any man to be a ruler over My people Israel."
2 Chronicles 6:5
This is not anthropomorphic language; this is God revealing Himself: declaring what He is like to us, in His Word.
Matthew, had God already chosen which city where the temple was to be built by the time of the exodus, or not?"
Me:
"You are confusing God foreknowing what he would choose in due time versus the moment at which He chooses it.
If I knew an apple and an orange were in a crate before I saw the crate and decided I was going to get the apple before being offered the crate - I would be foreknowing my choice. But once the thing is there offered to me directly is when I "choose." That's the difference.
Nowhere in this verse does it say "I did not know what I would choose."
You also have to completely ignore the context of this verse in order to have it go anywhere near your interpretation. God is here saying that He has not yet given or chosen a spot to which He would dwell in a house - it is nowhere saying He did not KNOW He would have a house in which to dwell, nor does it say He did not KNOW where it would be! Same with the ruler."
OT: "Hi Matthew,
Bible: God said "I have chosen no city (by/at that time)"
Matthew (in short):
"Yes, He did"
Me: "Lol, you completely ignored everything I just said. Good job.
God forknew what He would choose at the time He ordained to choose it. This choosing isn't something lacking foreknowledge, but is a choosing which brings forth an action or change in state - which is specific in time.
"Have not" is a past tense, by the way.
Besides, you conveniently took off the preceding clause which shows it is past tense: "SINCE the day... I HAVE chosen no city no city." This is past tense, showing God has not chosen before this time a city, but will now. But you still can't answer the fact that God knew exactly what He was going to choose before time. Also, this verse is not saying He did not preordain or decree the change in state which was happening. This choosing is not a change of mind or decree, but a change of state relative to Israel (not God)."
OT: "So God lies when He says at a certain time He did not choose, because you claim He knew He would choose and what He would choose already (i.e. before all that)?"
Me: "No, you are just immature and cannot tell the difference between foreknowledge and choosing within that foreknowledge that is for a specific time in human history."
What do you guys think? How can I answer this better next time? I think I might've accidentally denied or undermined predestination in my first response.
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