Luther and the RCC

[Notthemama1984]

I am reading Luther's Catechism right now and am noticing that he still has RCC tendencies. For example, he uses the RCC version of the Ten Commandments, seems to advocate baptismal regeneration, instructs people on how to confess their sins to a confessor, and in his letter to the pope Freedom of the Christian he seems to say that the Pope is not a vicar of Christ (for Christ is not truly absent), but is indeed someone really worthy of respect.

There are a few other minor things as well.

So I am curious how far did Luther stray from the RCC? Obviously God used Luther to start the Reformation so he did stray.

I ask out of pure ignorance.

 

[Contra_Mundum]

Luther eventually got around to seeing the papacy as the root of the church's trouble, though at first he was far from that understanding. By reading Luther's theology chronologically, you can see how the seeds of his insights grew and developed over time. Remember, he was at the very tip of the spear of the Reformation. He was a mighty man of God, and he was no slouch intellectually. He just grew right on through his time.

In many ways, Luther, more than Calvin and other (mainly Swiss) Reformers, wanted to preserve in the church as much as possible. So, he tended to err on the side of preservation (we might say). Our magisterial Reformers also wanted to preserve the heritage of the church, however, the difference sometimes came down to the question of "may we do this or that if it does no harm" (if the Bible doesn't prohibit), versus "what (specifically) are we permitted by Scripture to do?"

Lutherans do confess a baptismal-regeneration. They do hold on to the Roman numbering of the 10C. They have a "stripped down" version of Confession and Absolution. Confessional Lutherans are by no means RC; but they can often be seen looking rightward at Rome with greater cheer than many times they look at us. The Reformed dared to disagree with the Lutherans, and so they often go out of their way to lump all folks to their left together as "Reformed," I suspect because often they know better, and they know it can be infuriating, and it's fun to annoy people you resent. So, sometimes our folks respond by (inaccurately) classing them with the RCs.

 

[Notthemama1984]

Thank you Rev. Buchanan,

I did read the Smalcald Articles last night and Luther refers to the Pope as the AntiChrist numerous times. He is much less flattering when it comes to all things RCC. So I see what you mean about Luther and chronologically growing theologically.

Out of curiosity, do you think Luther's view of the Pope came about from simply having his eyes open or was it that Pope Leo was a decent guy, but Pope Paul (whatever number he is) was extremely ungodly?

I did find it interesting how he showed that the Mass denied justification by faith alone. The Articles were a very good read.

 

[moral necessity]

We also have to remember that, if one is too radical in their reform, they won't have many followers, and will be viewed as overly radical, much like the anabaptists were then. Most people aren't able to see all of the problems at the same time or to the same degree. And so, you take what you can get. If he would have outright abandoned the church, he also might not have been as protected by the governors and princes of the land. Church and state were not separated, and his life was already on the line as it was for what reform he was bringing about. As it worked out, the small steps that he proceeded on opened the door for further reform once the movement became solidified.

 

[Contra_Mundum]

do you think Luther's view of the Pope came about from simply having his eyes open or was it that Pope Leo was a decent guy, but Pope Paul (whatever number he is) was extremely ungodly?

I don't think personalities had much to do with it. Didn't Leo issue the bull that condemned him? Everyone knew that sometimes bad people are invested in high office. Like the Presidency can have good or bad men that fill it. Well, Luther started to see the papal office (correctly) as a corrupting institution. It wasn't just that bad men took the seat; the concept that had become the papacy was inherently wrong, it usurped Christ.

 

[Notthemama1984]

I have no clue if Pope Leo condemned him. My church history is sketchy

 

[calgal]

Boliver, it might help if keep in mind that Luther started out as an Augustinian Monk. He was trying to Reform the Church (at the time that would be the RCC) and was not trying to create a new denomination/church. That came about later on.