"Justification by ancestry?"

[IronSharpensIron]

Hello Brothers and Sisters,

I'm a relatively new believer (26M, about 3-4 years since coming to faith) and joined a local PCA church in late 2022 after the church plant I attended in my senior year of college folded. Since I've been there, I've gotten much deeper into Christian theology, Bible reading, and a few of the apparently endless nuances, controversies, and stereotypes surrounding church life. But what I just can't figure out about covenant theology is the significance of the family.

Some backstory to provide context: I didn't come from what you'd think of as a "covenant" household. My mother was raised in a Finney altar-call Southern Baptist tradition (apparently her ancestors also were for 6 generations) and my father is, and still remains, an atheist. They divorced in 2010 when I was 13. Mom won close to 100% custody and brought a few abusive boyfriends in. Haven't trusted her with much since, but things have gotten better. I got out of that house at 17 for boarding school, and then after a total dissolution of my identity Isaiah 6-style in my junior year of college, I came to faith in late 2019 and my life hasn't been the same since. My family's conscience was pretty shattered by my sudden conversion and it split three ways also due to some other complications. My mom & brother have since repented and joined a PCA church plant similar to the one I first heard the gospel at.

Now here's where I'm stuck: Covenant theology teaches things like "when God saves the person, God also saves the household." Also whenever I've seen a baby get baptized, they make a big show of the baby being added to the covenant and the congregation promises to pray for the baby and his/her parents, etc. They put a heavy, heavy emphasis on who you were born to. I'm all for the family unit - we need more families loving each other. Praise the Lord!

But I find myself saying "alas, for I wasn't born like that!" I was a firebrand that the Lord Jesus by His grace plucked out of the fire. I was dead in my sins, wallowing in my blood, with no knowledge of the gospel at all, and He said "Live!" No silver spoon in my mouth with my dad reading Reformed Dogmatics on the couch while I went up to my room to read my Heidelberg Catechism - just 22 long, grueling years of terrifying, hopeless, chaotic darkness until the Lord took me and made me Reformed serial number 00001 in my family. So I just don't get this weird emphasis on the salvation state of your parents. From my experience (and the Book of Galatians, of course) we are justified by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ alone, as He offers Himself in His only one true gospel of grace!

So here's my question for my beloved on this forum: Does the PCA actually teach that you need to have believing parents to be a "real" Christian, or that these "covenant children" are a certain breed of "super-Christian" without saying it out loud? I feel like people believe this in their consciences but don't say it. An elephant in the room, so to speak. I'm respectfully asking someone to correct me if I'm wrong on this. Also an important point for my future: Can I, the son of an atheist according to the flesh but a Son of God by faith in Christ, marry a young lady who is a "covenant child" in good conscience?

Or does this glorious yet so mysterious church truly see as they say, that God has mercy on whom He has mercy and compassion on whomever He has compassion? I hope the Lord also adds the less beautiful and less visible ones to His covenant too. The Bible says He does...

Grace and peace to you all in the Lord Jesus Christ, with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, both now and to the day of eternity with Him. Thank you for your time, talent, and treasure in the form of ancient wisdom.

 

[MarrowMan]

Hello Brothers and Sisters,

I'm a relatively new believer (26M, about 3-4 years since coming to faith) and joined a local PCA church in late 2022 after the church plant I attended in my senior year of college folded. Since I've been there, I've gotten much deeper into Christian theology, Bible reading, and a few of the apparently endless nuances, controversies, and stereotypes surrounding church life. But what I just can't figure out about covenant theology is the significance of the family.

Some backstory to provide context: I didn't come from what you'd think of as a "covenant" household. My mother was raised in a Finney altar-call Southern Baptist tradition (apparently her ancestors also were for 6 generations) and my father is, and still remains, an atheist. They divorced in 2010 when I was 13. Mom won close to 100% custody and brought a few abusive boyfriends in. Haven't trusted her with much since, but things have gotten better. I got out of that house at 17 for boarding school, and then after a total dissolution of my identity Isaiah 6-style in my junior year of college, I came to faith in late 2019 and my life hasn't been the same since. My family's conscience was pretty shattered by my sudden conversion and it split three ways also due to some other complications. My mom & brother have since repented and joined a PCA church plant similar to the one I first heard the gospel at.

Now here's where I'm stuck: Covenant theology teaches things like "when God saves the person, God also saves the household." Also whenever I've seen a baby get baptized, they make a big show of the baby being added to the covenant and the congregation promises to pray for the baby and his/her parents, etc. They put a heavy, heavy emphasis on who you were born to. I'm all for the family unit - we need more families loving each other. Praise the Lord!

But I find myself saying "alas, for I wasn't born like that!" I was a firebrand that the Lord Jesus by His grace plucked out of the fire. I was dead in my sins, wallowing in my blood, with no knowledge of the gospel at all, and He said "Live!" No silver spoon in my mouth with my dad reading Reformed Dogmatics on the couch while I went up to my room to read my Heidelberg Catechism - just 22 long, grueling years of terrifying, hopeless, chaotic darkness until the Lord took me and made me Reformed serial number 00001 in my family. So I just don't get this weird emphasis on the salvation state of your parents. From my experience (and the Book of Galatians, of course) we are justified by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ alone, as He offers Himself in His only one true gospel of grace!

So here's my question for my beloved on this forum: Does the PCA actually teach that you need to have believing parents to be a "real" Christian, or that these "covenant children" are a certain breed of "super-Christian" without saying it out loud? I feel like people believe this in their consciences but don't say it. An elephant in the room, so to speak. I'm respectfully asking someone to correct me if I'm wrong on this. Also an important point for my future: Can I, the son of an atheist according to the flesh but a Son of God by faith in Christ, marry a young lady who is a "covenant child" in good conscience?

Or does this glorious yet so mysterious church truly see as they say, that God has mercy on whom He has mercy and compassion on whomever He has compassion? I hope the Lord also adds the less beautiful and less visible ones to His covenant too. The Bible says He does...

Grace and peace to you all in the Lord Jesus Christ, with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, both now and to the day of eternity with Him. Thank you for your time, talent, and treasure in the form of ancient wisdom.

No, Covenant Theology does not teach that you need to have believing parents to be a “real” Christian, nor does it teach that covenant children are “super children”. I’m not aware of anyone who thinks or teaches in these terms though outliers and extremists exist in every stripe. It sounds like you need to do an actual thorough investigation of covenant theology and the relation of covenant children to it.

 

[davejonescue]

Here is a study of Covenant Theology by PRTS (Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary.) You will have to put them in order, as I dont have time to ddo it right now, but I think this is all the videos on the series.

 

[Jack K]

No, covenant theology does not teach that when God saves the person he also saves the household. Nor does it teach that you need to have believing parents to be the right kind of Christian. Nor does it teach that covenant children who believe are somehow better than those who did not grow up in Christian homes. None of that is true.

Everyone needs God to rescue them from darkness. If he has rescued you, you are his child. There is no greater honor possible, no higher level.

Yes, kids of believers are included in the church family, and that's a blessing for them and their parents. It's good for a church to celebrate this, but people raised in unbelieving homes should never feel second class. If that's how you feel, either the church is doing something wrong or something is causing you to take it the wrong way. That's not the message you ought to be hearing.

Oh, and here's an insider secret: it turns out many believers raised in Christian homes have a similar insecurity in the opposite direction. Sometimes we wonder if we are second-class believers because we do not have a drastic-change conversion story like you do. That's equally wrong.

 

[arapahoepark]

Hello Brothers and Sisters,

I'm a relatively new believer (26M, about 3-4 years since coming to faith) and joined a local PCA church in late 2022 after the church plant I attended in my senior year of college folded. Since I've been there, I've gotten much deeper into Christian theology, Bible reading, and a few of the apparently endless nuances, controversies, and stereotypes surrounding church life. But what I just can't figure out about covenant theology is the significance of the family.

Some backstory to provide context: I didn't come from what you'd think of as a "covenant" household. My mother was raised in a Finney altar-call Southern Baptist tradition (apparently her ancestors also were for 6 generations) and my father is, and still remains, an atheist. They divorced in 2010 when I was 13. Mom won close to 100% custody and brought a few abusive boyfriends in. Haven't trusted her with much since, but things have gotten better. I got out of that house at 17 for boarding school, and then after a total dissolution of my identity Isaiah 6-style in my junior year of college, I came to faith in late 2019 and my life hasn't been the same since. My family's conscience was pretty shattered by my sudden conversion and it split three ways also due to some other complications. My mom & brother have since repented and joined a PCA church plant similar to the one I first heard the gospel at.

Now here's where I'm stuck: Covenant theology teaches things like "when God saves the person, God also saves the household." Also whenever I've seen a baby get baptized, they make a big show of the baby being added to the covenant and the congregation promises to pray for the baby and his/her parents, etc. They put a heavy, heavy emphasis on who you were born to. I'm all for the family unit - we need more families loving each other. Praise the Lord!

But I find myself saying "alas, for I wasn't born like that!" I was a firebrand that the Lord Jesus by His grace plucked out of the fire. I was dead in my sins, wallowing in my blood, with no knowledge of the gospel at all, and He said "Live!" No silver spoon in my mouth with my dad reading Reformed Dogmatics on the couch while I went up to my room to read my Heidelberg Catechism - just 22 long, grueling years of terrifying, hopeless, chaotic darkness until the Lord took me and made me Reformed serial number 00001 in my family. So I just don't get this weird emphasis on the salvation state of your parents. From my experience (and the Book of Galatians, of course) we are justified by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ alone, as He offers Himself in His only one true gospel of grace!

So here's my question for my beloved on this forum: Does the PCA actually teach that you need to have believing parents to be a "real" Christian, or that these "covenant children" are a certain breed of "super-Christian" without saying it out loud? I feel like people believe this in their consciences but don't say it. An elephant in the room, so to speak. I'm respectfully asking someone to correct me if I'm wrong on this. Also an important point for my future: Can I, the son of an atheist according to the flesh but a Son of God by faith in Christ, marry a young lady who is a "covenant child" in good conscience?

Or does this glorious yet so mysterious church truly see as they say, that God has mercy on whom He has mercy and compassion on whomever He has compassion? I hope the Lord also adds the less beautiful and less visible ones to His covenant too. The Bible says He does...

Grace and peace to you all in the Lord Jesus Christ, with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, both now and to the day of eternity with Him. Thank you for your time, talent, and treasure in the form of ancient wisdom.

I hope this isn't the case. I'm certainly not PCA but anyone who doesn't welcome the thief on the cross without something extra is a cult.

 

[Theoretical]

Hello Brothers and Sisters,

I'm a relatively new believer (26M, about 3-4 years since coming to faith) and joined a local PCA church in late 2022 after the church plant I attended in my senior year of college folded. Since I've been there, I've gotten much deeper into Christian theology, Bible reading, and a few of the apparently endless nuances, controversies, and stereotypes surrounding church life. But what I just can't figure out about covenant theology is the significance of the family.

Some backstory to provide context: I didn't come from what you'd think of as a "covenant" household. My mother was raised in a Finney altar-call Southern Baptist tradition (apparently her ancestors also were for 6 generations) and my father is, and still remains, an atheist. They divorced in 2010 when I was 13. Mom won close to 100% custody and brought a few abusive boyfriends in. Haven't trusted her with much since, but things have gotten better. I got out of that house at 17 for boarding school, and then after a total dissolution of my identity Isaiah 6-style in my junior year of college, I came to faith in late 2019 and my life hasn't been the same since. My family's conscience was pretty shattered by my sudden conversion and it split three ways also due to some other complications. My mom & brother have since repented and joined a PCA church plant similar to the one I first heard the gospel at.

Now here's where I'm stuck: Covenant theology teaches things like "when God saves the person, God also saves the household." Also whenever I've seen a baby get baptized, they make a big show of the baby being added to the covenant and the congregation promises to pray for the baby and his/her parents, etc. They put a heavy, heavy emphasis on who you were born to. I'm all for the family unit - we need more families loving each other. Praise the Lord!

But I find myself saying "alas, for I wasn't born like that!" I was a firebrand that the Lord Jesus by His grace plucked out of the fire. I was dead in my sins, wallowing in my blood, with no knowledge of the gospel at all, and He said "Live!" No silver spoon in my mouth with my dad reading Reformed Dogmatics on the couch while I went up to my room to read my Heidelberg Catechism - just 22 long, grueling years of terrifying, hopeless, chaotic darkness until the Lord took me and made me Reformed serial number 00001 in my family. So I just don't get this weird emphasis on the salvation state of your parents. From my experience (and the Book of Galatians, of course) we are justified by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ alone, as He offers Himself in His only one true gospel of grace!

So here's my question for my beloved on this forum: Does the PCA actually teach that you need to have believing parents to be a "real" Christian, or that these "covenant children" are a certain breed of "super-Christian" without saying it out loud? I feel like people believe this in their consciences but don't say it. An elephant in the room, so to speak. I'm respectfully asking someone to correct me if I'm wrong on this. Also an important point for my future: Can I, the son of an atheist according to the flesh but a Son of God by faith in Christ, marry a young lady who is a "covenant child" in good conscience?

Or does this glorious yet so mysterious church truly see as they say, that God has mercy on whom He has mercy and compassion on whomever He has compassion? I hope the Lord also adds the less beautiful and less visible ones to His covenant too. The Bible says He does...

Grace and peace to you all in the Lord Jesus Christ, with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, both now and to the day of eternity with Him. Thank you for your time, talent, and treasure in the form of ancient wisdom.

A couple of things. You are definitely NOT a second class citizen for being a convert. Praise God for that! On top of this, "My mom & brother have since repented and joined a PCA church plant similar to the one I first heard the gospel at." What an amazing and wonderful thing!

Second, if THE Royal family line of Jesus has the bloodline He has, then most certainly, He welcomes in the foreigner and stranger.

1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

2 Abraham was the father of Isaac, and Isaac the father of Jacob, and Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers, 3 and Judah the father of Perez and Zerah by Tamar, and Perez the father of Hezron, and Hezron the father of Ram,[a] 4 and Ram the father of Amminadab, and Amminadab the father of Nahshon, and Nahshon the father of Salmon, 5 and Salmon the father of Boaz by Rahab, and Boaz the father of Obed by Ruth, and Obed the father of Jesse, 6 and Jesse the father of David the king.

And David was the father of Solomon by the wife of Uriah, 7 and Solomon the father of Rehoboam, and Rehoboam the father of Abijah, and Abijah the father of Asaph,[b] 8 and Asaph the father of Jehoshaphat, and Jehoshaphat the father of Joram, and Joram the father of Uzziah, 9 and Uzziah the father of Jotham, and Jotham the father of Ahaz, and Ahaz the father of Hezekiah, 10 and Hezekiah the father of Manasseh, and Manasseh the father of Amos,[c] and Amos the father of Josiah, 11 and Josiah the father of Jechoniah and his brothers, at the time of the deportation to Babylon.

12 And after the deportation to Babylon: Jechoniah was the father of Shealtiel,[d] and Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel, 13 and Zerubbabel the father of Abiud, and Abiud the father of Eliakim, and Eliakim the father of Azor, 14 and Azor the father of Zadok, and Zadok the father of Achim, and Achim the father of Eliud, 15 and Eliud the father of Eleazar, and Eleazar the father of Matthan, and Matthan the father of Jacob, 16 and Jacob the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called Christ.

17 So all the generations from Abraham to David were fourteen generations, and from David to the deportation to Babylon fourteen generations, and from the deportation to Babylon to the Christ fourteen generations.

Tamar: Judah's sons were so wretched that God killed multiple of them and rather than risk his remaining son, he defrauded his daughter in law who turned it back on him by her pretending to be a cult prostitute.

Rahab: a repentant prostitute of the Amonites, one of the wickedest tribes of the Canaanites

Ruth: A Moabitess (also ultimately descended from a non-Covenant line borne out of incest from Lot) convert who became the grandmother of the royal line.

Manasseh: An utterly depraved and wicked king of Judah who happened to repent at the end but brought nothing but ruin and judgment on Judah. More importantly, he was of the "line."

If Jesus is not ashamed of his royal bloodline, His people should not be ashamed of theirs because He is their older brother.

You've been saved by grace alone through faith alone. Welcome, you very much belong because he's brought you in!

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The covenant people of God always need to be refreshed by outsiders being grafted in, just as the Lord also promises to prune away dead existing branches. You have nothing to apologize for as outsider coming in.

---

Also an important point for my future: Can I, the son of an atheist according to the flesh but a Son of God by faith in Christ, marry a young lady who is a "covenant child" in good conscience? Absolutely. You and her will have had very different experiences, but in Christ, those can be extremely complementary when you're both serving Him. In your case, you know what it's like to be lost. In her case, she knows the blessings of the community but could easily take them for granted whereas you hunger and thirst for them. She's not higher status than you for having grown up this way and you're not lower status for having grown up a nonbeliever.

The blessings of the covenant means that families have unique opportunities to pass along their faith, but it also means that those grafted in have an opportunity to replenish and stir up plodding cradle believers. Those grafted in get to have the unique privilege of themselves getting to pass their faith on to their children and to be a blessing to their broader church family. When you see that child being baptized and then the congregation is asked whether they'll help support the parents and help the child grow, that means you not only have a real stake in his or her discipleship, you are a part of a world that's bigger than just you atomistically.

---

Oh, and here's an insider secret: it turns out many believers raised in Christian homes have a similar insecurity in the opposite direction. Sometimes we wonder if we are second-class believers because we do not have a drastic-change conversion story like you do. That's equally wrong.

Yep, this 100% Those of us raised in the church like me often wonder whether we aren't up to snuff because we don't have this kind of drastic change.