Fortune, Chance, Luck, etc., in Christian Speech and the ESV

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Ed Walsh

Ed Walsh

Puritan Board Senior
fortune definition:
bad luck, or an unlucky event: and other external, arbitrary forces affecting human affairs.

Webster's Dictionary 1828 - Online Edition (1 of 8 meanings)
1. Properly, chance; accident; luck; the arrival of something in a sudden or unexpected manner. Hence the heathens deified chance, and consecrated temples and altars to the goddess. Hence the modern use of the word, for a power supposed to distribute the lots of life, according to her own humor.
Though fortune's malice overthrow my state.

Other similar words an phrases:
in the cards, magic, spell, luckily, charm, enchantment, incantation,

I don't want to be "righteous overmuch," but throughout my Christian life, I have tried to avoid such words and phrases. I know that these and like words don't necessarily conjure up thoughts of a random universe devoid of God's Providence, but still, is this the class of language that belongs in a Christian's vocabulary?

Here's a test. Did you notice that I used such a word in the sentence above? I did so on purpose to see if you would catch it.

conjure:
to call or bring into existence by or as if by magic (usually followed by up)

What made me think of this subject? My morning Bible reading. I love the KJV, but knowing there are some things better translated in the ESV, I am reading through it cover-to-cover a second time to know my first love--The KJV better.

Here's what troubled me:
I was studying 1 Kings chapter 5, about Solomon's preparations for building the Temple, when I came across 1 Kings 5:4 "But now the Lord my God has given me rest on every side. There is neither adversary nor misfortune." I knew the King James did not use the word 'misfortune' in this verse. It reads, "But now the Lord my God hath given me rest on every side, so that there is neither adversary nor 'evil occurrent.'" This made me think of a similar phrase in the KJV; 1 Kings 22:34 (KJV) "And a certain man drew a bow 'at a venture,' and smote the king of Israel between the joints of the harness: wherefore he said unto the driver of his chariot, Turn thine hand, and carry me out of the host; for I am wounded." But when I looked up the word 'venture.'" I found that 'venture' relates far less to a luck-based kosmos than the other words I mentioned in the beginning. The teaching in context is the exact opposite of chance, in that it is describing the secret Providence of God.

Well anyway, what are your thoughts?

Ed
 
I agree with you and generally try not to use those words. However, the question is, when God says he is behind every cast of the lot, and the wind and rain, is there a means involved?

In other words, if you believe God created a world where he works through what we call scientific laws, like the law of gravity or thermodynamics, then you can allow for statistical laws. The entire insurance industry is based on statistical laws. People might call it chance, but it is more accurate to say that God created natural statistical laws where when you throw a coin a thousand times, it gets pretty close to 50/50 heads and tails. This is how Casinos always make money in the end, even with millions of people pulling slot machines. Statistics.

Meterologists rely on statistics based on past patterns, so if they say you have a 90% chance of at least 3 inches of snow, I don't have a problem with that....it means based on every winter storm since the 1850s, only 10% with this set of highs and lows and direction and windspeeds didn't amount to much snow.

I remember reading John Frame where he doesn't really believe in natural laws as we think of them, but would say God directly influenced without intermediary means the roll of the dice or the amount of snow or the apple falling down instead of up. I remember being surprised at how literally he took certain verses about what God does, I mean, God doing them directly without created natural means/laws/statistics. I don't know if that is classic orthodoxy and my view is too modern or not. (Of course I would say God is free to override all natural scientific laws or statistics and do miracles).

Very interesting subject for me and I will look forward to other replies. Do the Reformed believe in "statistics" and the laws of science, or is Frame the norm?
 
There are a lot of words we use on a daily basis that, if nitpicked, could be seen to presuppose some aspect of an unbiblical worldview. One example perhaps is "accident." We know that nothing is an "accident" at an ultimate level, even if it appears so to us, yet we use that word often, and it is legitimate. To translate רַע as "misfortune" is not promoting the idea of "fortune" or "fate." Granted, the KJV is probably better here, but the ESV is not bad.
 
Just out of interest, the Book of Common Prayer frequently uses luck and lucky in its translation of the Psalter, which is one of the greatest treasures of the English language.
 
If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all ... :duh:

Seriously, I teach my children to avoid words like luck and fortune and don't use them myself. I might say there's a chance we'll be back on time, meaning statistically, the weather or traffic may not cooperate. If providence were reintroduced in our speech, I wonder how fast it would be stripped of its meaning?
 
I've often thought the over-avoidance of such terms to be tedious, a sort of Christian virtue-signalling ("pot-providence" luncheons, in particular, seem overboard to me). I don't believe that when even most unbelievers use the term that they mean it in a metaphysical or, even less likely, a magical pagan sense. Atheistical philosophers, perhaps, but they use the term in a technical manner outside of common parlance. Rather it just refers to an unpredictability in outcome and indeed we know that only God knows the future. From a creaturely perspective luck, as speaking of chance or probability, is perfectly valid. Even our Lord speaks of chance in Luke 10, as does the preacher in Ecclesiastes 9, both of course not to the exclusion of providence by any means.
 
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lynnie said:
People might call it chance, but it is more accurate to say that God created natural statistical laws where when you throw a coin a thousand times, it gets pretty close to 50/50 heads and tails. This is how Casinos always make money in the end, even with millions of people pulling slot machines. Statistics.

Meteorologists rely on statistics based on past patterns, so if they say you have a 90% chance of at least 3 inches of snow, I don't have a problem with that....it means based on every winter storm since the 1850s, only 10% with this set of highs and lows and direction and windspeeds didn't amount to much snow.
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Hi Lynnie,

I didn't really mean to pick on the word 'chance.' (despite my title) The two times I mentioned it, it was quoted from other sources. Both the KJV and ESV use chance 4 or 5 times each in a non-magical way. I appreciate and agree with your thoughts on the word.

Thanks,
 
TheOldCourse said:
I don't believe that when even most unbelievers use the term that they mean it in a metaphysical or, even less likely, a magical pagan sense. […] From a creaturely perspective luck, as speaking of chance or probability, is perfectly valid.
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I think this is the main thing. There is a difference between using a word like "chance" in a passing manner and using it in the context of a metaphysical discussion.
 
lynnie said:
This is how Casinos always make money in the end, even with millions of people pulling slot machines. Statistics.
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Not really. Perhaps a roulette wheel or a game of blackjack. But the slots are rigged - it is all computer programming now, and the house is programmed to win.

That's why you read occasionally about someone hitting a big jackpot at an Indian casino, and the casino refusing to pay because the machine is broken. The casino is telling the truth. The machines are programmed to never give the huge payoff, and if they do, it is either a defect or someone hacked the device. No statistics involved. Just 'if/then' (or whatever the current syntax is) and counters.
 
Ed Walsh said:
fortune definition:
bad luck, or an unlucky event: and other external, arbitrary forces affecting human affairs.

Webster's Dictionary 1828 - Online Edition (1 of 8 meanings)
1. Properly, chance; accident; luck; the arrival of something in a sudden or unexpected manner. Hence the heathens deified chance, and consecrated temples and altars to the goddess. Hence the modern use of the word, for a power supposed to distribute the lots of life, according to her own humor.
Though fortune's malice overthrow my state.

Other similar words an phrases:
in the cards, magic, spell, luckily, charm, enchantment, incantation,

I don't want to be "righteous overmuch," but throughout my Christian life, I have tried to avoid such words and phrases. I know that these and like words don't necessarily conjure up thoughts of a random universe devoid of God's Providence, but still, is this the class of language that belongs in a Christian's vocabulary?

Here's a test. Did you notice that I used such a word in the sentence above? I did so on purpose to see if you would catch it.

conjure:
to call or bring into existence by or as if by magic (usually followed by up)

What made me think of this subject? My morning Bible reading. I love the KJV, but knowing there are some things better translated in the ESV, I am reading through it cover-to-cover a second time to know my first love--The KJV better.

Here's what troubled me:
I was studying 1 Kings chapter 5, about Solomon's preparations for building the Temple, when I came across 1 Kings 5:4 "But now the Lord my God has given me rest on every side. There is neither adversary nor [you]misfortune[/you]." I knew the King James did not use the word 'misfortune' in this verse. It reads, "But now the Lord my God hath given me rest on every side, so that there is neither adversary nor '[you]evil occurrent.[/you]'" This made me think of a similar phrase in the KJV; 1 Kings 22:34 (KJV) "And a certain man drew a bow 'at a venture,' and smote the king of Israel between the joints of the harness: wherefore he said unto the driver of his chariot, Turn thine hand, and carry me out of the host; for I am wounded." But when I looked up the word 'venture.'" I found that 'venture' relates far less to a luck-based kosmos than the other words I mentioned in the beginning. The teaching in context is the exact opposite of chance, in that it is describing the secret Providence of God.

Well anyway, what are your thoughts?

Ed
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The ESV probably translates the underlying Hebrew word more accurately. By "occurrent," they probably meant what we mean by "occurrence." Another example as to why the KJV is so creaky.
 
I realize Taylor already said something like this, but it is worth a concurring comment. In today's English, misfortune does not necessarily mean something that happened by chance or luck. One person can cause another's misfortune. For that matter, God can cause someone's misfortune. We talk that way. It's an established usage of the word.

I think maybe you're being a bit hard on the ESV, published in 2001, if you insist on holding it to an 1826 definition of the word fortune when deciding what it means by misfortune.
 
Jack K said:
I realize Taylor already said something like this, but it is worth a concurring comment. In today's English, misfortune does not necessarily mean something that happened by chance or luck. One person can cause another's misfortune. For that matter, God can cause someone's misfortune. We talk that way. It's an established usage of the word.

I think maybe you're being a bit hard on the ESV, published in 2001, if you insist on holding it to an 1826 definition of the word fortune when deciding what it means by misfortune.
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To use a dictionary, you sometimes have to look past the first meaning to subsequent offerings. The 19th century Webster's follows its first suggested meaning with a second:
2. The good or ill that befalls man.

In you the fortune of Great Britain lies.

The example makes it clear that "chance" is not an inherent part of the meaning of fortune, even in those days. So they would have understood "misfortune" as "the ill that befalls man", which is a pretty good rendering of ra' in 1 Kings 5:4.

More generally, as you note, the KJV is quite happy to use the word "chance". A good example is 1 Sam 6:9 (to be sure, spoken by pagans). KJV uses it to represent a couple of Hebrew words that have that same sense. It also uses the word "hap" in Ruth 2:3, which according to Websters means
1. That which comes suddenly or unexpectedly; chance; fortune; accident; casual event.

In that context, the Biblical writer (and the translator) expects you to recognize that events that seem like chance to us as observers often conceal the higher purposes of God. But they don't always need to heavy handedly flag that for you by using the word "providence" (which only occurs once in the KJV, of a human actor, not God).
 
Jack K said:
I realize Taylor already said something like this, but it is worth a concurring comment. In today's English, misfortune does not necessarily mean something that happened by chance or luck.
Click to expand...

I was thinking in the same terms as you are until—until that is, I checked the modern dictionaries for the word 'misfortune.' I could go on and on, but I list the first six dictionaries reviewed and the 1st definition given in each is "bad luck." I was always taught that a dictionary is not so much a word derivation but a report on the most common; up-to-date usage of a word. Is that incorrect? Perhaps all six of the first six definitions are reporting something that is not the case. But, as you can see, I was not relying solely on the old Webster Dictionary. Could it be that you are incorrect? I mean just this once. :) I'm well aware that most PB members are smarter and better educated than am I.

Merriam-Webster
1a: an event or conjunction of events that causes an unfortunate or distressing result: bad luck

Cambridge Dictionary
misfortune noun [ C/U ]
us /mɪsˈfɔr·tʃən/
1. bad luck, or an unlucky event:

Oxford Dictionary
1. Bad luck.

Dictionary.com
1. adverse fortune; bad luck.

Collins Dictionary.com
1. A misfortune is something unpleasant or unlucky that happens to someone.

Macmillan Dictionary.com
1. bad luck
 
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Ed Walsh said:

I was thinking in the same terms as you are until—until that is, I checked the modern dictionaries for the word 'misfortune.' I could go on and on, but I list the first six dictionaries reviewed and the 1st definition given in each is "bad luck." I was always taught that a dictionary is not so much a word derivation but a report on the most common; up-to-date usage of a word. Is that incorrect? Perhaps all six of the first six definitions are reporting something that is not the case. But, as you can see, I was not relying solely on the old Webster Dictionary. Could it be that you are incorrect? I mean just this once. :) I'm well aware that most PB members are smarter and better educated than am I.

Merriam-Webster
1a: an event or conjunction of events that causes an unfortunate or distressing result: bad luck

Cambridge Dictionary
misfortune noun [ C/you ]
us /mɪsˈfɔr·tʃən/
1. bad luck, or an unlucky event:

Oxford Dictionary
1. Bad luck.

Dictionary.com
1. adverse fortune; bad luck.

Collins Dictionary.com
1. A misfortune is something unpleasant or unlucky that happens to someone.

Macmillan Dictionary.com
1. bad luck
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Of course, misfortune can mean "bad luck." But that isn't its only meaning. Most words have a range of meaning. To tell which meaning is intended, you have to look at the context of the passage in question.

In the case you cited, the lack of misfortune is attributed to God. The translators probably figure you will be able to tell they don't mean "bad luck" when they use the word in that context. The word is used commonly enough when describing other bad occurrences besides those that seem to happen purely by chance.
 
Jack K said:
Of course, misfortune can mean "bad luck." But that isn't its only meaning. Most words have a range of meaning. To tell which meaning is intended, you have to look at the context of the passage in question.
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I agree. My only point was that that out of the first six dictionaries I checked "luck" ranked at position 1st in each case. I also thought that dictionaries listed meanings in descending order of usage. (although a 1st and 2nd positions could be reversed in some cases—it's a judgment call)

Jack K said:
In the case you cited, the lack of misfortune is attributed to God. The translators probably figure you will be able to tell they don't mean "bad luck" when they use the word in that context. The word is used commonly enough when describing other bad occurrences besides those that seem to happen purely by chance.
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In 1 Kings 5:4 I thought 'evil occurrent.' was a better phrase in context than 'nor misfortune.' But I, knowing no Hebrew, I bow to those who do. And I defended the phrase 'at a venture' as used in 1 Kings 22:34 (KJV) But I still think that I am on the side of the angels in the word 'misfortune,' even though I agree that there are secondary and tertiary meanings of the word.

Thanks to all for your input and correction.

Note: Don't want to be a party pooper but I fixed angles in this post.
 
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Ed Walsh said:
I agree. My only point was that that out of the first six dictionaries I checked "luck" ranked at position 1st in each case. I also thought that dictionaries listed meanings in descending order of usage. (although a 1st and 2nd positions could be reversed in some cases—it's a judgment call)



In 1 Kings 5:4 I thought 'evil occurrent.' was a better phrase in context than 'nor misfortune.' But I, knowing no Hebrew, I bow to those who do. And I defended the phrase 'at a venture' as used in 1 Kings 22:34 (KJV) But I still think that I am on the side of the angles in the word 'misfortune,' even though I agree that there are secondary and tertiary meanings of the word.

Thanks to all for your input and correction.
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On the side of the angles?
That recalls Gregory the Great's response to seeing some young British slave boys in the market and being informed that they were from the Angle tribe in Britain, he memorably said "Non angli sed angeli" ("Not of the Angles but of the Angels"), which then led to a mission to evangelize England.

The Latin tag was even more memorably mistranslated in Sellar and Yeatman's wonderfully silly 1066 and All That as "Not angels but Anglicans...." Anyone who enjoys history should read that comforting book.
Merry Christmas!
 
Ed Walsh said:
Hi Lynnie,

I didn't really mean to pick on the word 'chance.' (despite my title) The two times I mentioned it, it was quoted from other sources. Both the KJV and ESV use chance 4 or 5 times each in a non-magical way. I appreciate and agree with your thoughts on the word.

Thanks,
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I would think that for Christians words to be avoided would be such as Fate, Luck, Accidents, as our God is sovereign, and He is the One in full charge of our lives once we have been saved in Christ.
I also realize that many times people use those terms without really meaning to say that we have luck on our side.
 
Here is a sermon that has some relatedness with regard to oaths and vows (and, really, particularly applicable to moderating our speech, letting our yea be yea, and our nay, nay). Being careful with our speech should not be seen as necessarily legalistic (but, like anything, can be). I encourage anyone to listen to the whole sermon, but the particular application I'm speaking about begins around the 33 minute mark:

https://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=10409208231
 
iainduguid said:
On the side of the angles?
That recalls Gregory the Great's response to seeing some young British slave boys in the market and being informed that they were from the Angle tribe in Britain, he memorably said "Non angli sed angeli" ("Not of the Angles but of the Angels"), which then led to a mission to evangelize England.
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I am in the construction engineering business and deal with Angels all the time. :-)
Merry Christmas to you too?
PS - I have all your books (I think)
 
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