Explanation for 1 Timothy 3:4-5 and Titus 1:6

David Andonesei

Puritan Board Freshman
I heard many times in evangelical circles that 1 Timothy 3:4-5 and Titus 1:6 say that the children of an elder must be believers in order for the elder to be qualified for his position. Is this the right interpretation of the passages?
 
Its a pretty common interpretation in my country (Romania), I grew up with it and only recently questioned it. We even had a well known elder that resigned from his position because of it. I don't actually know of any theologian outside of Romania that holds this position.
 
I have heard of the viewpoint here and have had similar thoughts myself - that if a man's children are openly unbelieving/rebellious/disorderly he is not qualified for the role of elder. This naturally would only apply to minor children, though if grown offspring were marked by those characteristics, I would want to know more.

To answer the question @Polanus1561 - I myself have not given much thought to the position, so I'm not prepared to cite a source. It's something I've assumed but have not yet had a chance to study, and it's actually been on my list of future PB questions. :)
 
I heard it from all kinds of people. Members, elders, preachers, people with Theology degrees and even seminary professors.
 
1 Tim 3.

Manage household to show you can manage church.

if you posit all children need to have faith - which displays your ability and thus your suitability;

Then you must posit all your congregation to have faith and if anyone member departs from the faith you need to be sacked because you are a lousy manager.
 
Its a pretty common interpretation in my country (Romania)
Buna David, imi pare bine de cunostinta. Sotia mea este din Romania. Invat limba Romana incet :)

The reformed commentators I've read emphasize that the children of presbyters should be in subjection, well instructed in the faith, and examples for other families.

Calvin on Titus 1

"Having believing children Seeing that it is required that a pastor shall have prudence and gravity, it is proper that those qualities should be exhibited in his family; for how shall that man who cannot rule his own house -- be able to govern the church! Besides, not only must the bishop himself be free from reproach, but his whole family ought to be a sort of mirror of chaste and honorable discipline; and, therefore, in the First Epistle to Timothy, he not less strictly enjoins their wives what they ought to be.

First, he demands that the children shall be "believers;" whence it is obvious that they have been educated in the sound doctrine of godliness, and in the fear of the Lord. Secondly, that they shall not be devoted to luxury, that they may be known to have been educated to temperance and frugality. Thirdly, that they shall not be disobedient; for he who cannot obtain from his children any reverence or subjection -- will hardly be able to restrain the people by the bridle of discipline."
 
I heard many times in evangelical circles that 1 Timothy 3:4-5 and Titus 1:6 say that the children of an elder must be believers in order for the elder to be qualified for his position. Is this the right interpretation of the passages?
I feel odd now, but this is the only position I've ever known, and I thought this was the orthodox one.
 
I heard many times in evangelical circles that 1 Timothy 3:4-5 and Titus 1:6 say that the children of an elder must be believers in order for the elder to be qualified for his position. Is this the right interpretation of the passages?
Here are four relevant quotations that come to mind . . . perhaps I can provide some additional later tonight:

Theodore of Mopsuestia (350-428) on 1 Timothy 3:
The one who does not know how to rule his own people fittingly will much more be incapable by any means of ruling the church or teaching. For when he said having children in subjection, he is not speaking of the free choice of the children but of the great care of the father, so that he may be quick to train the children decently and to keep them obedient, submitting to his advice about what is right. But if, when the father makes such a choice, the children wish to persist in what is worse by the perversity of their own choice, it is not the father’s fault. This is because at present Paul is speaking of the father’s own purpose, so that he may expend great care on his own people that they may be established with modesty and discipline and seriousness. From this it can be demonstrated that he will have great care for all in the same way. For even Samuel’s children are singled out because they handed down justice for the love of money (1 Sam. 8:3) and we certainly do not blame Samuel for such a purpose as was theirs.

Theodore of Mopsuestia again on Titus 1.6:

He does not condemn the virtue of the father because of the perversity of the children, for the perversity of his children did not make Samuel unworthy of the priesthood. Rather he declares this because he wants to show that a father's zeal is demonstrable from the condition of his children. For this reason he said out of control, that is, "if he has been indifferent to his children when they rush forward to the worship of idols or lasciviousness or into what is worse and has not been willing to set their life right in any way, but has expended no care in putting them under his control or ordering their life as is fitting." He also made this point in writing to Timothy (1 Tim 3:4), and in this place likewise he does do because he wants to test the character of the person who is to be put in charge of others for their benefit, to see whether he has been diligent in his attention to his own children, training them in what they ought to learn. This is because if he is held to be like this, it is obvious that the man who has been diligent in his attention to his own children will be diligent also in his attention to those who are joined to the body of the church. But if he has been indifferent to his children, he would not be able to be diligent in his attention to those people.

Jerome (340s-420) on Titus 1.6:

And so, first of all it should be said that the name of priesthood is so holy that even the things that are placed outside of us are required of us. This is not in order that we not become bishops on account of our vices, but because we need to be hindered from taking this step on account of the incontinence of [our] children. For by what freedom can we correct the children of others and teach what is right, when the one who has been corrected could immediately hurl at us, "First teach your own children"? Or with what effrontery do I correct an outside fornicator, when my own conscience responds to me, "Disinherit then the fornicating children; cast out your children who are enslaved to the vices"? But when a bad child lives together with you in the same house, do you dare to remove the speck from the other's eye, not seeing the beam in your own? Consequently a just man is not defiled by the vices of his children, but the apostle restricts the freedom of the ruler of the church, that he may become such a kind who is not afraid that outsiders reproach him for the vices of his children.

Although not speaking directly to the qualification of elders, Thomas Watson (1620-1686) makes applicable comments concerning children gone on in rebellion:

Though to see him undutiful is your grief—yet not always your sin. Has a parent given the child, not only the milk of the breast—but "the sincere milk of the Word?" have you seasoned his tender years with pious education? You can do no more; parents can only work knowledge, God must work grace; they can only lay the wood together, it is God who must make it burn. A parent can only be a guide to show his child the way to heaven—the Spirit of God must be a loadstone to draw his heart into that way. "Am I in God's stead," says Jacob, "who has withheld the fruit of the womb?" (Ge. 30:2) Can I give children? So, is a parent in God's stead to give grace? who can help it, if a child having the light of conscience, Scripture, education, these three torches in his hand—yet runs willfully into the deep ponds of sin? Weep for your child, pray for him; but do not sin for him by discontent.
 
Last edited:
Thomas Taylor (1576-1632) on Titus 1:6:

Quest. But is it in the power of any Minister, or man to have faithful children: may not a good man and a Minister too, have most graceless children?

Ans. There is no man but he is to endeavor that his children may have even the grace of faith; which is further laid out of his power then by getting himself within the covenant. But there is no good man, who hath it not in his power, to instruct his children in the doctrine of faith: and also for outward order to make them conformable, and in some measure answerable to that profession, so long as they abide under his roof. And if the Lord afterwards for some unknown, and secret cause by leaving them, shew he hath no delight in them; such a father may herein comfort his conscience, that to his power he hath used the best means for their good.
 
I heard many times in evangelical circles that 1 Timothy 3:4-5 and Titus 1:6 say that the children of an elder must be believers in order for the elder to be qualified for his position. Is this the right interpretation of the passages?
I am thankful for the several good responses to this thread, particularly those quotes of our faithful forbears. I would like to add something that I believe is of equal importance.

Several men note that a distinction is warranted between those men who have a household with children in its bounds (who live under an elder's roof and formally are in some measure subordinate to him); and those men who have children who have left their father and mother to live independently. While a child lives under the parent's authority--even if after only a modest count--the father has a say in how that child conducts him/herself, or whether that child brings the whole family or house into disrepute while the father plays a fool and holds none to account.

It could even come to a case where a rebellious child, against both parental authority and the church's admonishments, is compelled to depart both from the house and from the church. Here is a case of difficult, even heartbreaking, but necessary discipline. I ask: what has this father/elder demonstrated but his faithfulness to his duty, his preference of divine honor to the honor of his child? This elder has proved his office, not stumbled in it. In most cases, probably the secret deviant departs on his own, before his sin or apostasy becomes known. Perhaps, for a season while the elder is distracted by the need to establish order in his dwelling he might require a leave of absence, but in order to his responsibility and not for his delinquency. But even this is an extreme case, if in all other respects the elder fulfills his duties and maintains a stable family order while exerting all the discipline necessary.

Yet, there are some who forbid such a man from holding office. "First, Elder or Pastor, get your house in order and see that your children are members in good standing." These and like terms are dictated even to some who have grown children, married sons and daughters with houses of their own who seemingly have wandered from the faith. As if the apostle and the Holy Spirit was not concerned for a man's dedication, but his appearance and the external display of faith? Is it even in the power of a man to hold such persons accountable who have forsaken his sphere of counsel? Is it in the power of a man to command faith from his children? Finally, is it the case that in order to a proper, spiritual end, all that is necessary is sufficient effort and the due use of means?

Has it crossed the mind of those who take a severe approach, who rebut the notion that a serving church officer could ever have a wayward child, that God allows some of his most dedicated servants to bear the heaviest crosses? What does it say to an ordinary church member, when all his pastors have "faithful children," but he does not? The message seems to be: "These men are the best, see how obedient they are (and their children are)? You are not the best, and not officer material (obviously)." Yes, he even sees a former officer now and again, who can't get it together (clearly) because his child is backsliding. "Officers are those who have stabilized their spirituality at a minimal level of excellence, as measured by how well their children recite the catechism."

In this sort of church, there are no pastors who know the grief of a child who has fallen. Consequently, they have no personal experience of that sorrow. Never having to bear that cross--or, only for a time until that issue was straightened out and the show is now doubly successful--their answer to the broken father and mother is: "Should have tried harder when you had the chance; don't mess up with your other offspring. God blesses effort (look at our officers, and their results plainly stemming from their good efforts)."

God let the church in Corinth go through a whole series of errors and struggles. Indeed he allowed church after church that might have marked the first great missionary-evangelist and apostle to the Gentiles with an unbroken string of successes to falter, to toy with false doctrine, to fall into cult of personality, and be prey to many other pits and schemes of the devil--God let this happen and even ordained it should, so we would have the letters our apostle-father wrote with many tears in his eyes making up the bulk of the doctrine and practical teaching of the New Testament. It's a good thing Paul had such taste of failure (in earthly calculus) from his spiritual children. Paul had a cross to bear and a thorn in his flesh to teach him humility, and so he might teach us what God taught him: "My grace is sufficient for you." And when I am weak, then I am strong.

I don't need a pastor who has never had a straying child, or only who has successfully seen one of those back into the fold (to prove his wholesomeness). I don't need a pastor only whose wife never left him for no good reason (God forbid he should exercise a biblically lawful divorce, or even remarry?). I don't need a pastor who is marked by his place three rungs up ahead of everyone else on the sanctification ladder. The same as I don't need a pastor who is a careless father indeed, a non-disciplinarian, a thrice-divorced serial adulterer, or some other derelict in his biblically defined duties.

I should be glad to have a pastor who may know--directly or by analogy--both the crushing weight of some woeful cross, and the sustaining grace of God in the midst of trial, someone who will experimentally point me to the heart of the Savior who bore our griefs and carried our sorrows.
 
I have heard of the viewpoint here and have had similar thoughts myself - that if a man's children are openly unbelieving/rebellious/disorderly he is not qualified for the role of elder. This naturally would only apply to minor children, though if grown offspring were marked by those characteristics, I would want to know more.

To answer the question @Polanus1561 - I myself have not given much thought to the position, so I'm not prepared to cite a source. It's something I've assumed but have not yet had a chance to study, and it's actually been on my list of future PB questions. :)
How many questions are on said list?
 
@Contra_Mundum - for clarification, I'm noting the qualification that my belief concerns children who are still under the care and authority of a parent.

Your post seems to imply that a pastor will better be able to understand the needs of his congregants if he has undergone a particular sorrow himself, and that a pastor who hasn't will be perceived as a "holier-than-thou" type by others. I doubt you intended this, but in some ways your argument seems like an appeal to emotion. Need a pastor have a wayward child, or a serious health problem, or a life history that includes extreme poverty or familial brokenness - or even a personal history of unbelief and rebellion - to be a Really Good Pastor?

I certainly don't believe that we are responsible for the salvation of our children. But I think the state of a person's household indicates two things that pertain to the qualifications of an elder. First, while we are not responsible for the salvation of our children, we know that our sins can and do have negative impacts on our household environment. For someone who has an unbelieving child in the home, it may indicate a serious shortcoming - or warrant investigation of such possibility - on the part of the parent in some way. Not must, but may - I want to make sure that distinction is noticed. Where it doesn't, it certainly may raise questions to that effect - an appearance of evil or an occasion for reproach.

Second, for a sincerely believing parent, may not the presence of an unbelieving or wayward child (or spouse, for that matter) be a significant distraction and diversion of time and energy - or a source of grief such as clouds one's objectivity and discernment - as rightly calls into question the prudence of such a person attempting to exercise church office?
 
@Contra_Mundum - for clarification, I'm noting the qualification that my belief concerns children who are still under the care and authority of a parent.

Your post seems to imply that a pastor will better be able to understand the needs of his congregants if he has undergone a particular sorrow himself, and that a pastor who hasn't will be perceived as a "holier-than-thou" type by others. I doubt you intended this, but in some ways your argument seems like an appeal to emotion. Need a pastor have a wayward child, or a serious health problem, or a life history that includes extreme poverty or familial brokenness - or even a personal history of unbelief and rebellion - to be a Really Good Pastor?

I certainly don't believe that we are responsible for the salvation of our children. But I think the state of a person's household indicates two things that pertain to the qualifications of an elder. First, while we are not responsible for the salvation of our children, we know that our sins can and do have negative impacts on our household environment. For someone who has an unbelieving child in the home, it may indicate a serious shortcoming - or warrant investigation of such possibility - on the part of the parent in some way. Not must, but may - I want to make sure that distinction is noticed. Where it doesn't, it certainly may raise questions to that effect - an appearance of evil or an occasion for reproach.

Second, for a sincerely believing parent, may not the presence of an unbelieving or wayward child (or spouse, for that matter) be a significant distraction and diversion of time and energy - or a source of grief such as clouds one's objectivity and discernment - as rightly calls into question the prudence of such a person attempting to exercise church office?
1. I broadened the issue, to explicitly include challenges (that I have seen personally) to pastoral fitness, when adult children have gone aside. I think those challenges are unwarranted, if a simplistic appeal is made to to this issue as a kind of litmus test. Might such news give pause for reflection? Yes, but not a knee-jerk reaction to pull a pastor's or elder's credential. Plus, there has to be some demonstration of cause-and-effect. It is unjust merely to point to bad behavior or denial of faith on the part of a child, and to proceed to divestment of office, as if it was a case of administrative justice and checking of the box. The result is no proof of fact, a post hoc fallacy. It is evidence that may yet be accompanied by other evidence that a man is still doing discipline and ruling well his house.

2. I make no denial that Paul points to a critical indicator of general fitness for church office in the conduct of a man's home affairs, and to the faith-marking of its members. I affirm it, while recognizing firstly its use for discriminating at the time of calling (the context of the passage), and secondarily and not in isolation from the whole context of ministry performance as an ongoing factor.

3. It's just a matter of fact that experience is a teacher. It is not necessary for someone to have an exact experience in order to build a reservoir of sympathy; but it is the case that within the ranks of the church is a library of experience, and when an elder does not have 1st hand experience, he is wise to borrow from the well of someone else if he means to serve truly the suffering of others. This is precisely the language of Paul, in 2Cor1:4-6, where his own pains are seen as the reason why he is better able to assist the Corinthians.

I had a specific criticism in mind, not a general preference for certain crosses or an evaluation of every other response. But I stand by the judgment that when a church sees absolutely no use in an elder who knows the grief of a child who rebels, they are sending a terrible message to the flock. They show they do not know how to apply the Pastoral Epistles, nor know that the gospel is for sufferers, and is dispensed by sufferers. It seems they see the ministry is to be populated by successes, not failures, particularly in this department. I think this utterly inconsistent with the gospel, and is not at all what Paul or Christ meant to teach us. I'm not "appealing to emotion" as a rhetorical ploy and distraction from sober reason, but there is a proper an effective appeal to the sensibilities of a Christian, and we should recoil from the picture of our pastors and elders as men who are beyond struggles, or who seem to us ordinary mortals like heroes.

4. By any means, study each situation so as to make a prudent determination and offer counsel. That is the duty of fellow elders.
 
Thank you for taking the time to explain. I have a better understanding now of what you are saying, and I am in agreement.
 
Back
Top