Complementarianism

[Jared]

I am a complementarian. I wasn't always. I was raised Pentecostal, but the influence of a friend that I worked with a few years ago who was an SBC pastor that pointed me to the scriptures forced me to change my position. It wasn't easy and I had a lot of discussions with him about this subject, but I finally had to concede that he was right.

I came across an article over at the CBMW website. It delineates the various positions across the spectrum concerning gender-roles in the church.

Some of the Pentecostals that I know say that they don't think women should be pastors but they don't have a problem with women teaching the whole congregation. My purpose here is not to talk about how wrong they are but to merely point out what it is that they believe. I disagree with them. But, it seems like from this article that Mark Driscoll basically holds that position. I didn't know that.

This would explain to me however how that Driscoll can like Henrietta Mear. I couldn't understand before I saw this article how he could like her and be a complementarian.

One of the interesting implications of this however is that if we are to define complementarianism the way this article does, then some Pentecostals would be complementarians.

Here is the link to the article:

https://www.cbmw.org/Journal/Vol-12-No-2/Younger-Evangelicals-and-Women-in-Ministry-A-Sketch-of-the-Spectrum-of-Opinion

BTW: I have been talking to some Charismatics on another forum about this. It's difficult to talk to them about this issue for two reasons. First of all, they are all over the place on the spectrum. Secondly, no matter what position they hold, even the more liberal complementarian position, it seems like this is something of a sacred cow for a lot of Charismatics. Anyway, I'll leave it at that for now. Let's talk.

 

[MLCOPE2]

I was raised in the AoG and was told once by the pastor that female pastors were ok but female deacons were not! Just another example of the inconsistent differences amongst the egalitarians.

 

[ericfromcowtown]

My inlaws are members of a Pentacostal Assembly of Canada (PAOC) congregation. They're complementarians, at least to the point where they believe that while Deacons can be female, Pastors and Elders cannot.

 

[au5t1n]

Here is the section on Pastor Driscoll for ease of reference:

Among the younger generation of evangelicals who hold to this sort of view is Pastor Mark Driscoll of Mars Hill Church in Seattle, Washington. Driscoll's influence on other young evangelicals has been considerable in re*cent years through his ubiquitous church planting "Acts 29 Network," which ac*cording to its website has ninety-four affiliated churches in North America.31 Mars Hill Church has published a little book that describes the church's posi*tion on various issues related to church leadership. In this book, Driscoll insists that "Paul's clear teaching" is that "only qualified men should be elders/pas*tors."32 Driscoll comes to this position in part as a result of his understanding of 1 Tim 2:12-14. Driscoll writes,

Without blushing, Paul is simply stating that when it comes to leading in the church, women are unfit because they are more gull*ible and easier to deceive than men. While many irate women have disagreed with his assessment through the years, it does appear from this that such women who fail to trust his instruction and follow his teaching are much like their mother Eve and are well-intended but ill-informed.33

Driscoll's droll interpretation of 1 Tim 2:12-14 is precisely what makes his ap*plication of the text so surprising. Mars Hill Church endorses gifted (but ap*parently "gullible" and "easily deceived") women to lead and to teach men so long as such women are not ordained as pas*tor/elder. Driscoll explains, "The teach*ing here likely also refers to preaching and teaching as done by the elders, as every other time teaching is spoken of in the remainder of the letter it is in refer*ence to the teaching of an elder (1 Tim 4:11, 5:7, 6:2)."34 According to Driscoll,

At Mars Hill we seek to en*courage women to use the abilities that God has given them to their fullest extent in anything from teaching a class to leading a community group, overseeing a ministry, leading as a deacon, speak*ing in church, leading wor*ship, serving communion, entering into full-time paid ministry as a member of the staff, and receiving formal theological education-or basically every opportunity in our church but the office of elder/pastor.35

It is the opinion of the present writers that not only is Driscoll mistaken in his interpretation of 1 Tim 2:12, but also his application of it to the ministries of his church is a non-sequitur. Why would one allow a person from the "gullible" and "easier to deceive" sex to lead and to teach God's people? How could such a person possibly be qualified to teach and to lead when they are so easily brought under the spell of error? We are not ready to concede Driscoll's interpreta*tion of Paul on this point.36 Yet even if we were to grant his interpretation, we believe that his praxis is hardly a legiti*mate implication of his exegesis.

Some reformed theologians pur*sue a similar line in introducing a dis*tinction between the "special" teaching office and the "general" teaching office.37 With this distinction made, women are allowed to teach men. The problem with this among those who practice it is that Paul does not prohibit women from taking up a teaching office over men. Rather, he simply prohibits women from teaching men.

https://www.cbmw.org/Journal/Vol-12...-Ministry-A-Sketch-of-the-Spectrum-of-Opinion

 

[Scott1]

This is a big subject, because it affects so much of the way we live our life.

God has ordained order and authority throughout His creation, both explicitly and implicitly. We can even see something of it in the light of nature (natural revelation).

That order, between genders, superiors in age, parents and children, employment relationships, to the state and magistrate is something that we all rebel against in our fallen nature. Nothing new about that, whatever term we call it by, or whatever aspect of it we are describing.

Giving ourselves over to that rebellion results in lawlessness, confusion, discord and misery. For the believer, whether a husband, wife, child, employer, employee, magistrate or citizen, such disobedience will bring the chastening of God upon his life- and all the shame of feeling separated from God.

For all God's Creatures- obey God, and submit yourself to the ordinances He has established, and it will go well with you.

 

[Peairtach]

That order, between genders, superiors in age, parents and children, employment relationships, to the state and magistrate is something that we all rebel against in our fallen nature. Nothing new about that, whatever term we call it by, or whatever aspect of it we are describing.

And of course it reflects the unity and plurality of the Trinity, and the fact that the members of the Triunity, although equal in power and glory, do not look upon it as a denial of that equality in power and glory for them to serve each other and, in Christ, to serve His people.

"For the Son of Man did not come to be served but to serve and give His life a ransom for many." (Mark 10:45)

How much we have to learn in becoming like Christ. The transvaluation of godless values.

 

[JBaldwin]

That order, between genders, superiors in age, parents and children, employment relationships, to the state and magistrate is something that we all rebel against in our fallen nature. Nothing new about that, whatever term we call it by, or whatever aspect of it we are describing.

And of course it reflects the unity and plurality of the Trinity, and the fact that the members of the Triunity, although equal in power and glory, do not look upon it as a denial of that equality in power and glory for them to serve each other and, in Christ, to serve His people.

"For the Son of Man did not come to be served but to serve and give His life a ransom for many." (Mark 10:45)

How much we have to learn in becoming like Christ. The transvaluation of godless values.

I appreciate your perspective on this. As someone who has struggled a lot with this over the years, it is important to remember that we are Christ's and all we do is to be a reflection of that. What I find amazing is that when this attitude of submission to one another exists within the church, all of a sudden there are a lot of things women can do which do not violate God's order. But when this does not exist, women either take over roles they shouldn't or they are squashed down to the point where they are not allowed to do anything.

 

[Willem van Oranje]

As a former pentecostal/charismatic, I can tell you that these churches accepted women in teaching roles long before the mainline did, due to their theology of the spiritual gifts. They believe that there are prophets and prophetesses today who ought to be speaking to the congregation. Unlike the mainline protestant denoms, for them, the teaching/prophetic role of women (embraced from their earliest beginnings around the turn of the 20th century) had nothing to do with feminism, and everything to do with their non-cessationism regarding the gift of prophecy.

 

[Jared]

As a former pentecostal/charismatic, I can tell you that these churches accepted women in teaching roles long before the mainline did, due to their theology of the spiritual gifts. They believe that there are prophets and prophetesses today who ought to be speaking to the congregation. Unlike the mainline protestant denoms, for them, the teaching/prophetic role of women (embraced from their earliest beginnings around the turn of the 20th century) had nothing to do with feminism, and everything to do with their non-cessationism regarding the gift of prophecy.

I can see that. But, Wayne Grudem is a continuationist and a complementarian.