Chuck Smith counsels abortion

Status
Not open for further replies.
C

ClayPot

Puritan Board Sophomore
I'm doubt there are very many Chuck Smith fans on the board, but I was still very sad to learn that he counseled a woman having a difficult pregnancy with Siamese twins that God would not condemn her if she had an abortion. I pray that Nicki, the woman he was talking to, did not follow through with his suggestion and the Pastor Smith repents of his counsel. Story and audio link here:

Pastor Chuck Smith Stuns Radio Listeners by Encouraging Woman to Abort - Christian Newswire
 
This is so sad and so ignorant. I would hope the woman has friends who will tell her about the Hensel twins. I saw the TV show they did and to think of killing off babies like that, well, even if you are not a Christian it is obviously murder.

John Piper said that there are lists in the USA of hundreds of parents who are willing to adopt any baby, no matter how incredibly deformed or medically needy they are. I would think Smith must be aware of that as well.

The local Calvary Chapel has featured Missler for entire weekends. Did you know that amillenialists were responsible for Hitler's nazis and the deaths of millions? Yup, this doctrine leads straight to murder. Missler said it, so it is probably canon in some CCs. But now abortion might be OK?

Hopefully his co-regents will speak to him and there will be a public repudiation of this counsel.
 
That poor woman, and those poor kids! I pray that someone has reached out to her with some proper Biblical advice.
 
How old is Pastor Smith? I hope a Christian Dr. comes and counsels him on this grave matter which he appears to be so misinformed on.
 
Hold on a minute. Firstly, there are two separate issues in the exchange between Smith and this poor soul. If God would condemn/punish us for sin, we would all be rightfully hell bound. Condemn was the word Smith used, that word applies to judgment. What Smith said is true regarding her potential damnation if indeed she belongs to Him. The Calvary types are not covenantal or reformed so if one thinks they must grab hold of salvation it makes sense salvation can be wrested loose. Secondly, we are not privy to any off the air conversations Smith may have had with this woman. I think it prudent to give Smith the benefit of the doubt before hanging him. Yes it does look like poor pastoral guidance based on the transcript, but is there sufficient evidence to warrant this man be tarred so soon in a rush to judgment? How many Pastors wish they could take back things said to those seeking their counsel? Yes public person argument aside, he is a brother and a pastor.
 
For me, aside from the bad counsel to commit the abortion, I'm quite saddened by Smith's poor use of Scripture and what it seems he is saying. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems he is saying, "Go ahead and sin, because God won't condemn you." It is true that God won't condemn a Christian who sins, but to encourage sin, because of that, is wrong.
Also Chuck Smith believes that you can lose your salvation, so I'm assuming he's telling her that with this one sin, (that of killing her children), will be overlooked by God because the choices before her are so hard...
 
This is disturbing and sad... what is worse is Chuck lies the next day to justify his counsel.

I am glad that when my wife was pregnant with conjoined twins that we did not seek counsel from Chuck. Good Times Delgado Style

I wonder if any Calvary pastors will have enough integrity to man up and call him out on this.
 
This thread is approaching or has crossed the slanderous speech line. The caller clearly described her concern with her own health (“complications”) relative to her obligations to her two year old child and husband. Now the PB is calling Smith a liar on top of an abortionist! This is sick and what is sad and disturbing is that this thread has not been shut down.
 
seajayrice said:
This thread is approaching or has crossed the slanderous speech line. The caller clearly described her concern with her own health (“complications”) relative to her obligations to her two year old child and husband. Now the PB is calling Smith a liar on top of an abortionist! This is sick and what is sad and disturbing is that this thread has not been shut down.
Click to expand...

CJ,

A few thoughts.

1. I am personally hesitant to call Pastor Smith a liar. However, his explanation on February 9th of the woman's circumstances does not match watch she said in her call on February 8th. Perhaps she gave more detail about the situation to Pastor Smith and his colleague after the show that we didn't know about, but Pastor Smith certainly didn't indicate that this was the case. It is natural to question the truthfulness of the statements of the second day, even if you want to give Pastor Smith the benefit of the doubt.

2. While Nicki did mention complications with the pregnancy in relation to her family, she didn't indicate during her call that these complications were life threatening. Hence, there is no reason for Pastor Smith to counsel abortion as an acceptable option. If he knew about life-threatening complications, then he should certainly have mentioned that before giving his advice, as that would have an impact on how people perceived his advice. People have been flabberghasted because there was no clear indication that the mother's life was in danger and he hasn't stated that this information was obtained during conversation the audience wasn't privy to. Hence the skepticism related to point 1.
 
seajayrice said:
This thread is approaching or has crossed the slanderous speech line. The caller clearly described her concern with her own health (“complications”) relative to her obligations to her two year old child and husband. Now the PB is calling Smith a liar on top of an abortionist! This is sick and what is sad and disturbing is that this thread has not been shut down.
Click to expand...

This is the Puritan Board. People argue about words and terms and meanings all day long.

The article says this:

We hate to use the word "lie" but there is no other term for what the two pastors said next.

"As the lady said yesterday, the doctors were saying that her life was in jeopardy and carrying the babies, er, uh, baby that is in her womb with two heads, that the baby would not be able to survive more than five minutes after the birth, and that her life was jeopardized by it and she has a little two-year old daughter and I would say in a situation like that with these extenuating circumstances, that God would be gracious and forgiving. But that isn't endorsing abortion at all...I'm totally opposed to abortion for just any reason, but I believe in being reasonable."Smith is speaking out of both sides of his mouth. One cannot say that abortion is justifiable with one breath then say that he is not endorsing abortion with the other. This kind of double-talk only serves to create confusion amongst believers. The Bible is clear; innocent bloodshed is not reasonable, it is sin.

The word "lie" is used. The word " doubletalk" is used. So what exactly do you want to call it- saying the abortion is OK and then next day saying he is not endorsing abortion? Ok, maybe he isn't lying, he is deluded and confused?

The guy has a major problem going on here, call it whatever you want.
 
Wow, Jason. That was the most powerful thing I've read in quite a while. Thanks for your example.
 
I am a little upset with your thread as you can see, but I thank you for your measured reply. I guess my main point is that we don’t have all the facts and we should give Brother Chuck some leeway, the day he started pastoring folks over the radio is the day this thread should have come up. You must know that if the sweet sister shared any intimate details with Smith, he is bound to discretion and has now put himself between the rock and a hard place. These radio shows are poor form on so many levels and this sad example should serve as a clarion call to pastors and broadcasters alike. Saints should not feel the need nor be encouraged to call radio shows for pastoral counsel.

---------- Post added at 09:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:49 PM ----------
lynnie said:
seajayrice said:
This thread is approaching or has crossed the slanderous speech line. The caller clearly described her concern with her own health (“complications”) relative to her obligations to her two year old child and husband. Now the PB is calling Smith a liar on top of an abortionist! This is sick and what is sad and disturbing is that this thread has not been shut down.
Click to expand...

This is the Puritan Board. People argue about words and terms and meanings all day long.

The article says this:

We hate to use the word "lie" but there is no other term for what the two pastors said next.

"As the lady said yesterday, the doctors were saying that her life was in jeopardy and carrying the babies, er, uh, baby that is in her womb with two heads, that the baby would not be able to survive more than five minutes after the birth, and that her life was jeopardized by it and she has a little two-year old daughter and I would say in a situation like that with these extenuating circumstances, that God would be gracious and forgiving. But that isn't endorsing abortion at all...I'm totally opposed to abortion for just any reason, but I believe in being reasonable."Smith is speaking out of both sides of his mouth. One cannot say that abortion is justifiable with one breath then say that he is not endorsing abortion with the other. This kind of double-talk only serves to create confusion amongst believers. The Bible is clear; innocent bloodshed is not reasonable, it is sin.

The word "lie" is used. The word " doubletalk" is used. So what exactly do you want to call it- saying the abortion is OK and then next day saying he is not endorsing abortion? Ok, maybe he isn't lying, he is deluded and confused?

The guy has a major problem going on here, call it whatever you want.
Click to expand...

Yes, we play in the theological sandbox, we debate the thee and thou and endless Greek interpretive difficulties but when a saint is tarred by accusation, there is or should be another bar.
 
I think this quote

"I do not believe in abortion as it is being practiced today. However, there can be extenuating circumstances," Smith continued.
Click to expand...

is as bothersome as anything on that page. It sounds like what you'd expect to hear from a politician who was trying to get you to believe that he's one the same side as you are, but who's going to vote the other way when elected. "I do not believe in abortion as it is being practiced today." That can mean almost anything. And that was after he had a chance to script what he was going to say.
 
I think this quote

"I do not believe in abortion as it is being practiced today. However, there can be extenuating circumstances," Smith continued.
Click to expand...

is as bothersome as anything on that page. It sounds like what you'd expect to hear from a politician who was trying to get you to believe that he's one the same side as you are, but who's going to vote the other way when elected. "I do not believe in abortion as it is being practiced today." That can mean almost anything. And that was after he had a chance to script what he was going to say.
Click to expand...

Thank you Edward - let's rephrase that quote, because what he's saying is this: "I do not believe in murder as it is being practiced today. However, there can be extenuating circumstances". The Texas defense works in a home invasion - "that fella just needed killin'" - but it does not work on a baby. Let's remember, he is not counselling this woman, he is counselling every listener to that show especially those Christians that see him as an authority. That demands a careful choice of words, and God forbid that anyone listening took his waffling on the topic to justify aborting their child. One more area where the malignant tumour of secular culture is growing in the church.
 
kvanlaan said:
Thank you Edward - let's rephrase that quote, because what he's saying is this: "I do not believe in murder as it is being practiced today. However, there can be extenuating circumstances".
Click to expand...

That's a charitable reading of what he said, and is likely accurate. There are other, less charitable interpretations that can be derived from it. And it is unfortunate that he did not come out and clearly say what he meant, leaving a wide range of possible interpretations on the table.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top