Christ and the Non-Elect in the New Covenant

[smhbbag]

Note this is in the Paedobaptism Answers forum. Answers from paedos only, please.

What does Christ do for the non-elect who are in the New Covenant?

I have two main areas in mind.

1) Prayer: Does He pray for them? If so, what does He pray for? Are those prayers effective?

2) Sacrifice: Did Christ make sacrifice for them, in any sense? If so, why doesn't it secure their salvation?

 

[Michael]

Perhaps you have some scripture in mind as an example of Christ praying or making sacrifice for the non-elect?

 

[Pergamum]

If Christ prayed for the non-elect "Father forgive them" on the Cross and He did not mean the Elect only by this petition, then we have Christ making a petition to the Father on behalf of the Non-Elect.

 

[Michael]

If Christ prayed for the non-elect "Father forgive them" on the Cross and He did not mean the Elect only by this petition, then we have Christ making a petition to the Father on behalf of the Non-Elect.

How do you know that he did not mean the "Elect only" when he prayed, "Father forgive them"?

 

[MW]

What does Christ do for the non-elect who are in the New Covenant?

The London Baptist Confession carries over the same general teaching as the Westminster Confession of Faith with regard to those who are only outwardly called. See 10.4.

Regarding Christ's prayers, the LBCF 8.4 is a repetition of WCF 8.4, in teaching that Christ did perfectly fulfil the law; and LBCF 22.4 is the same with WCF 21.4, in teaching that prayer is to be made for all sorts of men living.

The mediation of Christ is particular in both confessions, 8.5.

 

[smhbbag]

The London Baptist Confession carries over the same general teaching as the Westminster Confession of Faith with regard to those who are only outwardly called. See 10.4.

Regarding Christ's prayers, the LBCF 8.4 is a repetition of WCF 8.4, in teaching that Christ did perfectly fulfil the law; and LBCF 22.4 is the same with WCF 21.4, in teaching that prayer is to be made for all sorts of men living.

The mediation of Christ is particular in both confessions, 8.5.

Rev. Winzer - I have read the sections you mention, and do not find answers to any of my questions. I am not trying to be obtuse. I really don't see it.

Can you cite the wording within them that addresses it?

For the non-elect in the New Covenant:

1) Prayer: Does He pray for them? If so, what does He pray for? Are those prayers effective?

2) Sacrifice: Did Christ make sacrifice for them, in any sense? If so, why doesn't it secure their salvation?

 

[Pergamum]

If Christ prayed for the non-elect "Father forgive them" on the Cross and He did not mean the Elect only by this petition, then we have Christ making a petition to the Father on behalf of the Non-Elect.

How do you know that he did not mean the "Elect only" when he prayed, "Father forgive them"?

That is exactly what I believe so that I do not count any of Christ's prayers as ineffectual.

 

[MW]

Rev. Winzer - I have read the sections you mention, and do not find answers to any of my questions. I am not trying to be obtuse. I really don't see it.

Can you cite the wording within them that addresses it?

10.4, "Common operations of the Spirit." Antipaedobaptists still have to deal with the phenomenon of "visible saints" who are only so by profession.

8.4, Jesus perfectly fulfilled the law of God, including loving neighbour as oneself, which includes praying for them which despitefully use you.

8.5, the work of mediation is particular, being for those whom the Father had given Him; therefore sacrifice is only for the elect.

 

[smhbbag]

8.4, Jesus perfectly fulfilled the law of God, including loving neighbour as oneself, which includes praying for them which despitefully use you.

8.5, the work of mediation is particular, being for those whom the Father had given Him; therefore sacrifice is only for the elect.

So your answers are:

1) Yes, Christ prays for all people without exception, including the non-elect in the New Covenant, and non-elect outside of the New Covenant.

2) No, Christ did not, in any sense, make sacrifice for the non-elect, including those in the New Covenant.

Fair summation?

 

[MW]

So your answers are:

1) Yes, Christ prays for all people without exception, including the non-elect in the New Covenant, and non-elect outside of the New Covenant.

2) No, Christ did not, in any sense, make sacrifice for the non-elect, including those in the New Covenant.

Fair summation?

1. No; "fulfilled the law" is past tense while your summation is present tense. It can only refer to the state of humiliation on earth, not to His present state of exaltation.

2. Correct.

 

[smhbbag]

1. No; "fulfilled the law" is past tense while your summation is present tense. It can only refer to the state of humiliation on earth, not to His present state of exaltation.

Very, very interesting. Thanks for the clarification.

Any other takes from the paedo camp? If you just agree with Rev. Winzer, feel free to state that, too.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I agree with Rev. Winzer. Heb 7:23-25:

[23]*The former priests were many in number, because they were prevented by death from continuing in office, [24]*but he holds his priesthood permanently, because he continues forever. [25]*Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.
(Hebrews 7:23-25 ESV)

His intercession in heaven is seen as the cause of the saving His saints to the uttermost. If Christ interceded for the non-elect then, by definition, they would not be non-elect because they would be saved to the uttermost. As atonement is necessary for salvation it goes without saying that His sacrifice is not for the non-elect either.

Of course, the same was true for those saints that lived under the former administration of the Covenant of Grace. Christ's saving work has always been restricted to the elect but God condescends to men to historically administer these covenants or there would be no point of contact between what God knows and what man knows.

 

[Peairtach]

Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision? Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God. What if some were unfaithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God?(Romans 3:1-3:3)

If the Apostle thought there was great benefit to being brought up in a Jewish family, I'm sure a fortiori he would have thought more so of being brought up in a Christian family. Some were only ever "Jews" ( they weren't Israelites indeed in whom there is no guile, like Nathanael ) and some today are only ever "Christians".

What the reprobate do with God's genuine goodness in the mysterious providence of God doesn't nullify God's faithfulness in being good to them in bringing them in His providence under the administration of the CoG.

God's reprobation doesn't eliminate man's responsibility for what he does with God's genuinely good gifts just because our tiny minds find it difficult to comprehend that.