Biggest threat to the Church today?

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arapahoepark

arapahoepark

Puritan Board Professor
What do you think is the biggest threat to the church today? ( I would assume that it comes form inside the church, or the church itself not doing anything.

in my opinion I think that today it's the fact that the church has a view of a sentimental love God, one that doesn't punish sin and it has lead to cultural Antinomianism
 
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arap said:
I think that today it's the fact that the church has a view of a sentimental love God, one that doesn't punish sin and it has lead to cultural Antinomianism
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It might help if you clarified how broadly or narrowly you are using "church" in your question.

Also, having read your information page, would you please list as your confessional subscription the WCF if indeed that is what you believe. Thanks
 
arap said:
What do you think is the biggest threat to the church today? ( I would assume that it comes form inside the church, or the church itself not doing anything.

in my opinion I think that today it's the fact that the church has a view of a sentimental love God, one that doesn't punish sin and it has lead to cultural Antinomianism
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The same as before, the Roman Catholic church.
 
arap said:
What do you think is the biggest threat to the church today? ( I would assume that it comes form inside the church, or the church itself not doing anything.

in my opinion I think that today it's the fact that the church has a view of a sentimental love God, one that doesn't punish sin and it has lead to cultural Antinomianism
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I would say implicit atheism of church members. I see it go in two different directions, man-made laws to determine how righteous a church member is and tolerance and even acceptance of the world without critical thinking as evidence by those who accept female pastors, any variant of evolutionism, acceptance of a non-supernatural and evolving view of scripture, fornication, adultery, and sodomy as trivial, et al. I see this as coming from the late 19th early 20th century rationalism that Christians tried to use to deal with the attacks of evolution and atheists at the time.
 
The Beast and the False Prophet, introduced in Revelation 13, represent the twin major dangers which the Church has faced down the centuries, which put pressure on her to compromise and become the Whore, Babylon.

These twin dangers are overt persecution and false teaching.
 
Serpent to Eve: "Did God really say ...." That women can't be elders; that homosexuality is wrong; that .... fill in the blank. Reject the authority of God's word and you've rejected God and his authority over his church. Everything else follows this issue off the cliff.

I saw that many of the "conservative" Presbyterian churches are leaving the PCUSA and establishing a denomination that affirms The Book of Confessions, 1967 (the point at which the WCF, 1905, was no longer viewed as the confessional standard, but is merely one of many). So they've moved the clock back 45 years, but have still not embraced the all-demanding truth and authority of the scriptures. So where do you think they'll be in a few decades?
 
Generally speaking, I think satanic dogma is our biggest threat. Many have listed some of the elements in previous posts. We also have the issue of verbal agreement with truth, but functioning in a manner that doesn't align with what we speak, and thinking that we are. Sort of a confessional delusion???
 
I don't know about the church at large but certainly it seems my own challenge in this culture is to live for another world and not for this one. Thinking especially of what Richard brought up, it seems like worldliness (not in a fundamentalistic sense, for I think fundamentalism is largely so rooted in a reaction to the world that it scarcely qualifies for other worldliness) must be a danger for the church where there is not persecution? (Whereas false teaching is a danger all around?)
 
The desire to go to great lengths to be attractive to a worldly culture and, associated with this, a practical (if not actual) Arminianism in bearing witness concerning Christ.
 
I believe the threat is very similar to that just before the Reformation:

from inside - a loss of inerrancy and the distinct nature of the Church

from outside - Islam (the devil's main counterfeit)
 
The insinuation of popular culture into the church and the church's willingness to embrace it. Is amity with the world no more enmity with God?

The idea that we can live with one foot in the City of God and one foot in the City of Man and be right with God.

Also "it's not a salvation issue". Huge breaches in the city walls from that one particular item.
 
The Holy Scriptures are put aside as well as Biblical Authority. The Individual is more important than the whole.
I honestly believe that the Decalogue and the disrespect of authority is a bad problem. Listen to God.

BTW, I agree with Kevin. Salvation is not just about justification. Victor Paul Wierwille of the Way International and other life forms would have been correct if it was just about Justice maybe. But he has a wrong view of Christ and salvation. Overstatement? Maybe. Lutheran? No! Deception is a problem.

Victor Paul Wierwille

http://www.puritanboard.com/blogs/puritancovenanter/5th-commandment-affections-our-children-668/

We have forgotten to honour that which is historical and Parental. That is a big problem. We don't listen to our parents.
 
I personally see a few things, relativism (it's all relative), emotionalism (it's not fair), and a lack of theological study. These of course added to the many previous posts.
 
KSon said:
Romans922 said:
Inerrancy and Sufficiency of Scripture.
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Ding-Ding-Ding-Ding
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I third this one. Read about the Down-Grade Controversy in England; Robert Shindler (a friend of Charles Spurgeon's) came to this same conclusion after reading through the histories of liberalized churches and movements.

I would add that, after the authority/sufficiency of Scripture (from which a great many errors stem), the other errors are Antinomianism and Legalism-and both are alive and well today in the church in both brazen and subtle forms.
 
I would argue that the single biggest threat today is an inadequate Christology which leads to an inadequate view of Scripture.
 
Philip said:
I would argue that the single biggest threat today is an inadequate Christology which leads to an inadequate view of Scripture.
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Hmm... seems cause and effect that you posit are reversed... but certainly an inadequate Christology is common today.
 
toddpedlar said:
Hmm... seems cause and effect that you posit are reversed... but certainly an inadequate Christology is common today.
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Are you suggesting that Scripture gives Christ His authority? We receive Scripture as Scripture on the authority of Christ through the Spirit.
 
Philip said:
toddpedlar said:
Hmm... seems cause and effect that you posit are reversed... but certainly an inadequate Christology is common today.
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Are you suggesting that Scripture gives Christ His authority? We receive Scripture as Scripture on the authority of Christ through the Spirit.
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I think what Todd is saying is that we only know/hear about Christ from Scripture. So an improper view of Scripture leads to bad Christology. If we have a proper doctrine of Scripture we will come to a proper view of Christology.

For example look at the Confession, the divines didn't start with Christology or Theology proper, they started with Scripture because Scripture is that which reveals Christ to us.
 
Romans922 said:
If we have a proper doctrine of Scripture we will come to a proper view of Christology.
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Jehovah's Witnesses believe in inerrancy. Where does Scripture get its authority from? The whole question of authority assumes a Trinitarian theological framework. JWs believe in inerrancy on a faulty foundation. You cannot have inerrancy without Christ.
 
You are ignoring what I stated. JWs do not have a proper doctrine of Scripture, because they do not believe in the inerrancy of the truly inspired Word of God. They make their own scriptures.

1. Although the light of nature, and the works of creation and providence do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of God, as to leave men unexcusable; yet are they not sufficient to give that knowledge of God, and of his will, which is necessary unto salvation. Therefore it pleased the Lord, at sundry times, and in divers manners, to reveal himself, and to declare that his will unto his church; and afterwards, for the better preserving and propagating of the truth, and for the more sure establishment and comfort of the church against the corruption of the flesh, and the malice of Satan and of the world, to commit the same wholly unto writing: which maketh the Holy Scripture to be most necessary; those former ways of God's revealing his will unto his people being now ceased.
2. Under the name of Holy Scripture, or the Word of God written, are now contained all the books of the Old and New Testaments, which are these:
Of the Old Testament:
[TABLE="class: wcf, width: 90%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 33%"]Genesis[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"]II Chronicles[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"]Daniel[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 33%"]Exodus[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"]Ezra[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"]Hosea[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 33%"]Leviticus[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"]Nehemiah[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"]Joel[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 33%"]Numbers[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"]Esther[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"]Amos[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 33%"]Deuteronomy[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"]Job[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"]Obadiah[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 33%"]Joshua[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"]Psalms[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"]Jonah[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 33%"]Judges[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"]Proverbs[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"]Micah[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 33%"]Ruth[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"]Ecclesiastes[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"]Nahum[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 33%"]I Samuel[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"]The Song of Songs[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"]Habakkuk[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 33%"]II Samuel[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"]Isaiah[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"]Zephaniah[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 33%"]I Kings[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"]Jeremiah[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"]Haggai[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 33%"]II Kings[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"]Lamentations[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"]Zechariah[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 33%"]I Chronicles[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"]Ezekiel[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"]Malachi[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Of the New Testament:
[TABLE="class: wcf, width: 90%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 33%"]The Gospels[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"] Galatians[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"]The Epistle[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 33%"] according to[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"] Ephesians[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"] of James[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 33%"] Matthew[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"] Philippians[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"]The first and[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 33%"] Mark[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"] Colossians[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"] second Epistles[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 33%"] Luke[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"] Thessalonians I[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"] of Peter[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 33%"] John[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"] Thessalonians II[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"]The first, second,[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 33%"]The Acts of the[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"] to Timothy I[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"] and third Epistles[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 33%"] Apostles[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"] to Timothy II[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"] of John[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 33%"]Paul's Epistles[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"] to Titus[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"]The Epistle[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 33%"] to the Romans[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"] to Philemon[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"] of Jude[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 33%"] Corinthians I[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"]The Epistle to[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"]The Revelation[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 33%"] Corinthians II[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"] the Hebrews[/TD]
[TD="width: 33%"] of John[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
All which are given by inspiration of God to be the rule of faith and life.
3. The books commonly called Apocrypha, not being of divine inspiration, are no part of the canon of the Scripture, and therefore are of no authority in the church of God, nor to be any otherwise approved, or made use of, than other human writings.
4. The authority of the Holy Scripture, for which it ought to be believed, and obeyed, dependeth not upon the testimony of any man, or church; but wholly upon God (who is truth itself) the author thereof: and therefore it is to be received, because it is the Word of God.
5. We may be moved and induced by the testimony of the church to an high and reverent esteem of the Holy Scripture. And the heavenliness of the matter, the efficacy of the doctrine, the majesty of the style, the consent of all the parts, the scope of the whole (which is, to give all glory to God), the full discovery it makes of the only way of man's salvation, the many other incomparable excellencies, and the entire perfection thereof, are arguments whereby it doth abundantly evidence itself to be the Word of God: yet notwithstanding, our full persuasion and assurance of the infallible truth and divine authority thereof, is from the inward work of the Holy Spirit bearing witness by and with the Word in our hearts.
6. The whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for his own glory, man's salvation, faith and life, is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture: unto which nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new revelations of the Spirit, or traditions of men. Nevertheless, we acknowledge the inward illumination of the Spirit of God to be necessary for the saving understanding of such things as are revealed in the Word: and that there are some circumstances concerning the worship of God, and government of the church, common to human actions and societies, which are to be ordered by the light of nature, and Christian prudence, according to the general rules of the Word, which are always to be observed.
7. All things in Scripture are not alike plain in themselves, nor alike clear unto all: yet those things which are necessary to be known, believed, and observed for salvation, are so clearly propounded, and opened in some place of Scripture or other, that not only the learned, but the unlearned, in a due use of the ordinary means, may attain unto a sufficient understanding of them.
8. The Old Testament in Hebrew (which was the native language of the people of God of old), and the New Testament in Greek (which, at the time of the writing of it, was most generally known to the nations), being immediately inspired by God, and, by his singular care and providence, kept pure in all ages, are therefore authentical; so as, in all controversies of religion, the church is finally to appeal unto them. But, because these original tongues are not known to all the people of God, who have right unto, and interest in the Scriptures, and are commanded, in the fear of God, to read and search them, therefore they are to be translated into the vulgar language of every nation unto which they come, that, the Word of God dwelling plentifully in all, they may worship him in an acceptable manner; and, through patience and comfort of the Scriptures, may have hope.
9. The infallible rule of interpretation of Scripture is the Scripture itself: and therefore, when there is a question about the true and full sense of any Scripture (which is not manifold, but one), it must be searched and known by other places that speak more clearly.
10. The supreme judge by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest, can be no other but the Holy Spirit speaking in the Scripture.
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I think, though, that if you look carefully, you'll see that the beginning of a rejection of inerrancy is always a rejection of good Christology and that the beginning of a good doctrine of Scripture is in a proper recognition of who Christ is. You cannot have a proper doctrine of Scripture without a proper doctrine of Jesus Christ (which also entails a proper Trinitarian theology): the Word of God revealed through the infallible and inerrant Words of God in Scripture. We can know God only because of Jesus Christ: the old testament saints knew God by faith in the promises of God which were realized in Jesus Christ. The Scriptures are infallible and inerrant because they perfectly reveal Christ, who points back to them.
 
I think the biggest threat facing the church is actually seminaries because they are educating the future leaders of the church. It is through that as the means in which liberalism, along side of other issues, will damage the church. We already see women elders, homosexuality, Inerrancy and Sufficiency of Scripture, relativism and critical views of creation being promoted in liberal seminaries. Men are getting into massive debt for a theological education, which in turn will affect their ability to minister to God’s people. And not to mention the separation of education and pastoral training through discipleship training from a pastor or group of local elders in a local church to an organization that may not have church or denominational oversight. This is not to mention the depression of students that maybe a result of instructors communicating poor objectives and refusal to provide personal assistance for clarification and direction. And such instructors are not held accountable for their own wickedness towards the student. Seminaries may not necessarily care for communicating the truth of God, and instead focuses on trying to bring more students then they can teach to themselves because they want money, prestige, or both. And thus not Christ centered, gospel centered, and church centered educated that provides for the students needs. And by not abiding by the needs of the church and the student, violate a basic covenant of works and is thus stealing from the students who money could help the local church; instead of being a servant of the church. The future of churches reflects now the education of what pastors are expected to believe in the church and from there these pastors teach what they learned in seminary. And those producing the issues mentioned above.
 
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