Originally posted by 4ndr3w
Do some of you want to help me with this? I know of Augustine's great work concerning Pelagius, etc. but I have never heard of these claims (from someone trying to refute the Doctrines of Grace):
Somewhere around 200A.D. an man by the name of Augustine who is revered today as being Holy and Pious, ( Especially by the Catholic church) decided that people were too stupid and uneducated to understand for themselves the truths revealed in the scriptures. He was instrumental in taking the Holy Scriptures out of the hands of the common people. The ones it was actually written for. Only the priests or elders of the church were allowed to read the scripture. That ushered in the dark ages. About 400 or 500 A.D. Constantine decided to be a "Christian" and since he was the emperor, the total power on earth, he decided that every one was going to be a Christian. So he put the sword to the people's throat and if they refused to accept Christ he slit their throat. He was an instrument of Satan and adultered true Christianity, an already crippled Christianity that was started by taking the Word of God out of the hands of the people.
When I challenged him to prove this he backed down. Has anyone heard of this before specifically: "
He was instrumental in taking the Holy Scriptures out of the hands of the common people. The ones it was actually written for. " ?
[Edited on 16-11-2004 by 4ndr3w]
Actually, the claim betrays a great deal of ignorance coupled with nonsense. For one thing, Augustine's dates are 354-430 AD. And the fact is that he encouraged the reading of the Scriptures by the laity...
Augustine (354-430): Consider, moreover, the style in which Sacred Scripture is composed,"”how accessible it is to all men, though its deeper mysteries are penetrable to very few. The plain truths which it contains it declares in the artless language of familiar friendship to the hearts both of the unlearned and of the learned; but even the truths which it veils in symbols it does not set forth in stiff and stately sentences, which a mind somewhat sluggish and uneducated might shrink from approaching, as a poor man shrinks from the presence of the rich; but, by the condescension of its style, it invites all not only to be fed with the truth which is plain, but also to be exercised by the truth which is concealed, having both in its simple and in its obscure portions the same truth. Lest what is easily understood should beget satiety in the reader, the same truth being in another place more obscurely expressed becomes again desired, and, being desired, is somehow invested with a new attractiveness, and thus is received with pleasure into the heart. By these means wayward minds are corrected, weak minds are nourished, and strong minds are filled with pleasure, in such a way as is profitable to all. This doctrine has no enemy but the man who, being in error, is ignorant of its incomparable usefulness, or, being spiritually diseased, is averse to its healing power.
NPNF1: Vol. I, Letters of St. Augustine, Letter 137, Chapter 5, §18. See also
FC, Vol. 20, Saint Augustine Letters, 137. Addressed to Volusian (412 AD) (New York: Fathers of the Church, Inc., 1953), p. 34.
Augustine (354-430): For among the things that are plainly laid down in Scripture are to be found all matters that concern faith and the manner of life,"”to wit, hope and love, of which I have spoken in the previous book.
NPNF1: Vol. II, On Christian Doctrine, Book II, Chapter 9.
Same Citation as above (Rotelle)
Augustine (354-430): The fact is, after all, that in the passages that are put plainly in scripture is to be found everything that touches upon faith, and good morals, that is to say hope, charity, which we dealt with in the previous book. John E. Rotelle, O.S.A., ed.,
Works of St. Augustine, Part 1, Vol. 11, trans. Edmund Hill, O.P.,
De Doctrina Christiana, Book II, Chapter 9, §14. (New York: New City Press, 1996), p. 135.
Augustine (354-430): Call this fancy, if it is not actually the case that men all over the world have been led, and are now led, to believe in Christ by reading these books.
NPNF1: Vol. IV, Reply to Faustus the Manichaean, Book XVI, §20.
Augustine (354-430): For in the full abundance of the Holy Scriptures we feed upon the plain parts, we are exercised by the obscure: by the one, hunger is driven away, and daintiness by the other.
NPNF1: Vol. VI, Sermons on Selected Lessons of the New Testament, Sermon 21, §11.
Augustine (354-430): All things that are read from the Holy Scriptures in order to our instruction and salvation, it behooves us to hear with earnest heed. Yet most of all must those things be commended to our memory, which are of most force against heretics; whose insidious designs cease not to circumvent all that are weaker and more negligent. Remember that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ both died for us, and rose again; died, to wit, for our offenses, rose again for our justification. Even as ye have just heard concerning the two disciples whom He met with in the way, how "œtheir eyes were holden that they should not know Him:" and He found them despairing of the redemption that was in Christ, and deeming that now He had suffered and was dead as a man, not accounting that as Son of God He ever liveth; and deeming too that He was so dead in the flesh as not to come to life again, but just as one of the prophets: as those of you who were attentive have just now heard their own words. Then "œHe opened to them the Scriptures, beginning at Moses," and going through all the prophets, showing them that all He had suffered had been foretold, lest they should be more staggered if the Lord should rise again, and the more fail to believe Him, if these things had not been told before concerning Him. For the firmness of faith is in this, that all things which came to pass in Christ were foretold. The disciples, then, knew Him not, save "œin the breaking of bread." And truly he that eateth and drinketh not judgment to himself in the breaking of bread cloth know Christ. Afterward also those eleven "œthought they saw a spirit." He gave Himself to be handled by them, who also gave Himself to be crucified; to be crucified by enemies, to be handled by friends: yet the Physician of all, both of the ungodliness of those, and of the unbelief of these. For ye heard when the Acts of the Apostles were read, how many thousands of Christ´s slayers believed. If those believed afterwards who had killed, should not those believe who for a little while doubted? And yet even in regard of them, (a thing which ye ought especially to observe, and to commit to your memory, because that which shall make us strong against insidious errors, God has been pleased to put in the Scriptures, against which no man dares to speak, who in any sort wishes to seem a Christian), when He had given Himself to be handled by them, that did not suffice Him, but He would also confirm by means of the Scriptures the heart of them that believe: for He looked forward to us who should be afterwards; seeing that in Him we have nothing that we can handle, but have that which we may read.
NPNF1: Vol. VII, Ten Homilies on the First Epistle of John, Homily 2, 1 John 2:12-17, §1.
Augustine (354-430): So "œHe gave them unto compassions, in the sight of all that had taken them captive" (ver. 46). That they might not be vessels of wrath, but vessels of mercy. The compassions unto which He gave them are named in the plural for this reason, I imagine, because each one hath a gift of his own from God, one in one way, another in another. Come then, whosoever readest this, and dost recognize the grace of God, by which we are redeemed unto eternal life through our Lord Jesus Christ, by reading in the apostolical writings, and by searching in the Prophets, and seest the Old Testament revealed in the New, the New veiled in the Old; remember the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, where, when He driveth him out of the hearts of the faithful, He saith, "œNow is the prince of this world cast out:" and again of the Apostle, when he saith, "œWho hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of His dear Son." Meditate on these and such like things, examine also the Old Testament, and see what is sung in that Psalm, the title of which is, When the temple was being built after the captivity: for there it is said, "œSing unto the Lord a new song." And, that thou mayest not think it doth refer to the Jewish people only, he saith, "œSing unto the Lord, all the whole earth: sing unto the Lord, and praise His Name: declare," or rather, "œgive the good news of," or, to transfer the very word used in the Greek, "œevangelize day from day, His salvation." Here the Gospel (Evangelium) is mentioned, in which is announced the Day that came from Day, our Lord Christ, the Light from Light, the Son from the Father. This also is the meaning of His salvation: for Christ is the Salvation of God, as we have shown above....
NPNF1: Vol. VIII, St. Augustin on the Psalms, Psalm 106, §32.
Augustine (354-430): From whom have you heard this? Where have you learned it? Where did you read it? Would you not do better to turn your mind to the Books of God? John E. Rotelle, O.S.A., ed.,
WSA, Arianism and Other Heresies, Answer to Maximinus the Arian, Book I:III, Part 1, Vol. 18, trans. Roland J. Teske, S.J. (Hyde Park: New City Press, 1995), p. 248.
Augustine (354-430): You exaggerate "œhow difficult the knowledge of the sacred scriptures is," claiming that "œit is suited for only the learned few, . . ." John E. Rotelle, O.S.A., ed.,
The WSA, Answer to the Pelagians, II, Answer to Julian, Book V:2, Part 1, Vol. 24, trans. Roland J. Teske, S.J. (Hyde Park: New City Press, 1998), p. 432.
Augustine (354-430): This, after all, is the reason why a young man corrects his way of life: because he meditates upon the words of God as he ought to meditate upon them, observes them because he meditates upon them, and lives correctly because he observes them. This, then, is the reason for correcting his way of life: because he observes the words of God. John E. Rotelle, O.S.A., ed.,
WSA, Answer to the Pelagians, II, Answer to Julian, Book VI:76, Part 1, Vol. 24, trans. Roland J. Teske, S.J. (Hyde Park: New City Press, 1998), p. 528.
Augustine (354-430): Our volumes are put up for sale in public; the light never needs to blush. Let them buy them, read them, believe them; or else buy them, read them, make fun of them. Those Scriptures know how to hold people guilty who read them and don´t believe. John E. Rotelle, O.S.A., ed.,
WSA, Newly Discovered Sermons, Part 3, Vol. 11, trans. Edmund Hill, O.P., Sermon 198.20 (Hyde Park: New City Press, 1997), pp. 195-196.
Augustine (354-430): Let those who have not yet believed observe, O my dear brothers and sisters, let them observe how many are the things that God has put into effect. Everything that we can see is being done in the name of Christ throughout the whole wide world was foreseen, foretold, written down beforehand. The volumes are in our hands, the facts before our eyes. John E. Rotelle, O.S.A., ed.,
WSA, Newly Discovered Sermons, Part 3, Vol. 11, trans. Edmund Hill, O.P., Sermon 360B (Hyde Park: New City Press, 1997), p. 379.
Blessings,
DTK
. And if you know his facts are false, bring those up as well.
